Fish sausages: Ugandan CEO taps into demand | Hacker News Reader

Fish sausages: Ugandan CEO taps into demand

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121 pointsjkuria98 comments

Fish sausages are sold in Japan, and these are a finely emulsified sausage of fish with pork fat.

Run the Japanese Wikipedia page through a translator for more background: https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%AD%9A%E8%82%89%E3%82%BD%...

This is a graph of fish sausage production 1953-2020 https://www.jca-can.or.jp/~sausage/tokei-htm/ in Japanese, left axis is tons.

I've translated a 1939 paper on fish sausage and whale ham production methods, comment if interested.

Why the decline after 1970?

As the Japanese economy took off a more western style diet was adopted, with a stronger focus on meat. As well sausages are typically lower quality/cheaper protein so an increase in wealth would correspond with a move away from sausages.

probably cause they taste like crap?

Can confirm. I tried them once, never again.

Taste isn't bad but not great. I think lack of popular recipes use fish sausages is a reason. I just eat it or fry with vegetables.

I used to eat them all the time -- and yeah they taste pretty bad. I'm the kinda guy that says flavor be damned, if I just need a quick source of protein.

They're usually sold in convenience stores quite cheaply as otsumami (booze food). Since I'm now engaged to health-food buff, the last time I reached for one, I was told to look at the ingredients list -- which was a mile long. The commonly sold variety just ain't that healthy.

>> Why the decline after 1970?

Because the presence of fish sausage is a leading indicator of societal collapse.

Thanks, I guess if I want imitation meat I can go with Kanikama. This does not sound good. At all.

They seem to be present in most Asian cultures. The ones I've had were similar to fish balls, mildly sweet and quite different from other sausages in taste and texture. They weren't terrible but I didn't really care for them.

As someone who has tried fish sausages, I just wanna say...anyone who thinks there's a strong demand for fish sausages hasn't tried fish sausages

>fush sausages

Is that a Kiwi thing?

Perhaps there are different kinds? If they are anything like fish balls, I can imagine they're good in some dishes, although perhaps not appetizing on their own.

Huh. I have fish balls in white sauce with potatoes on the side all the time. Sprinkled with some curry. One of my favorite dishes.

But after thinking about it I think I understand. I would never eat one fish ball on it’s own. That sounds disgusting. On the other hand, a butter sautéed fish cake is delicious. And a fish cake is more or less the same as a fish ball, just a bit different shape.

Fish balls are great street foods

I'm sure no matter where you go, there is at least one type of food that wouldn't be eaten by most of the rest of the world.

Yep, in the Mid-Atlantic region of the US, we have Scrapple. it's the rest of the pig that doesn't end up as sausage. The tagline reads "Everything but the oink"

"The mush is formed into a semi-solid congealed loaf"

Mmm.

I think this is more of the case of "all regions have some food item that they project as their 'signature' dish but is almost more of a prank".

I don't think I know anyone in Pennsylvania that actually likes scrapple.

I enjoy scrapple. Fried slices on their own are not too bad, but it really shines as the meat in a breakfast burrito. It’s certainly better than SPAM.

> It’s certainly better than SPAM.

That’s quite the ringing endorsement.

SPAM is widely enjoyed throughout Hawaii. SPAM musubi is great.

> SPAM is widely enjoyed throughout Hawaii.

Indeed.

> SPAM musubi is great.

Obviously subjective, but it’s so-so in my opinion.

I’m not in PA but I’m from there. Scrapple is delicious. Fry it on both sides to give it some texture and it’s even better.

Rocky Mountain oysters come to mind as another. Some people love them, but I can't bring myself to even try them.

Try em fried. They are unique, definitely nothing gross in terms of texture or flavor, just the mental block I guess.

Scrapple with a sprinkle of pepper and a drizzle of syrup is good eats. Fried up properly, it's basically a protein-filled hash brown.

Perhaps they can make it more similar to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_finger

I’ve recently had a smoked trout sausage dish in a restaurant. It was amazing, and really hit the textures of a sausage with a great twist on the flavor.

There’s definitely potential.

I've had fish sausages from a street food vendor when visiting Greifswald, Germany a few years back and they were delicious! But these were "artisanal" rather than industrially produced to be the cheapest source of protein.

That's a cool story. Always good to hear about successes like this.

I would find Nile Perch fish sausages good.

Nile Perch are pretty awesome fish[0] (but they are an aggressive introduced species). Many American fisher[wo]men have no idea what they're missing.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile_perch

There is a similar initiative to turn invasive fish species such as Snakehead fish into "fish donuts". Solves two problems at once. Probably would work as well as fish sausages: https://designawards.core77.com/speculative-design/108041/Ec...

Fish sausages are the kind of thing you wonder why it never existed before...

Although fish sticks, similarly are processed fish meat, have been around for a while.

Fish sticks (fish fingers) are not processed all that much. A crab stick [1] is maybe closer to a sausage in the amount of processing that has been done.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_stick

In French cuisine fish sausages ("quenelles") exist since a long time, though I expect they might taste quite different from the ones described here.

Product market fit, then hustle and then free press = profitable business everywhere in the world.

Honestly I would love to buy ground haddock or salmon at the supermarket. Especially if they can produce it cheaper than frozen fish.

But why haven’t fish sausages etc. been created before? I imagine there are logistic challenges and reasons why ground fish is kind of a dumb idea especially vs. frozen fish. Like i bet ground salmon would go bad much quicker than frozen salmon, and it wouldn’t get a nice texture and cook nice like ground beef or turkey.

Try a Korean grocer for fish sausages. They seem to be a popular thing there. I've bought some before in London - tasty but quite "processed".

I’ve had fish cakes before, especially in Japanese and Chinese soups. Not sure why nobody made the leap to sausage.

This seems quite similar to fishcake. Maybe the difference is having a casing?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishcake

Yup there are also related fish ball products

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_ball

Both delicious. Fish balls should be heated in a white sauce (based on the “sauce” from the package) and served with potatoes and with a sprinkle of curry on top. Fish cakes are best sautéed in butter and eaten on the go imo, but you can also serve it in a brown sauce and of course with potatoes.

Fish doesn’t seem to preserve that well. Even smoked salmon only lasts a little while. This doesn’t prevent you from making fresh sausage, but the fresh sausage market is not very big.

Growing up with parents that were small scale fishermen, I grow up recognizing that the store bought fish taste and smell was actually just fish that people hasn't manage well enough to keep fresh. Most of the catch we got was actually alive when we came back from the lake, and then generally imminently gutted, fillet, and put in the freezer.

Smoke salmon is an other thing that really should not be in fridge temperature for more than a few days, I would say max 5-7 days from when it was smoked. Smoked salmon freeze well through, and one can also grind up smoked salmon that has been frozen to make quite nice Pâté and other dishes. Naturally, if the fish was mishandled before it was smoked then the result is likely to be bad also.

Fish at the supermarket is really hard to determine how long it been unfrozen, or how many times the fish got thawed and refrozen during processing, or if all the people involved between has been handling the fish with the care needed to not allowing the rotting process from starting.

One interesting thing is that Chinese supermarkets, even the ones in the US, tend to keep fish in water tanks, to be processed by the fishmonger.

I've heard that these water tanks are often diseased fish or contain antibiotics. Is this true?

I doubt it. I've eaten it weekly for much of my life.

At the very least, I doubt it's anything much worse than the fish on a fish farm get.

I’ve done my share of fishing and can’t say they smell much better even though the taste sure is.

> Fish doesn’t seem to preserve that well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dried_and_salted_cod

I've cooked this (baccala/salt cod) at least a year old and it was fine, I would reckon that it'd be fine for multiple years if kept cool (in refrigeration).

I wonder how palatable the structure, mouth feel and bite is. Seasoning is unlikely to be issue, but the rest are quite critical for sausage eating experience.

Fish sausage is already pretty popular. McDonald's Filet-o-fish, salmon cakes, fish sticks etc are all _roughly_ sausage. I suppose it depends on how strongly you feel about the casing part of the sausage definition, but for my money "ground up meat (and binders) in a shape" captures the essence of sausage well enough.

Filet o Fish isn’t ground up.

It tastes like it is. ;-)

Isn't it? Perhaps it has been too long but I recall it being a fish patty, definitely could be my memory failing me.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's probably as processed and 'ground up' as fish could possibly be

Your the bearer of false news. It’s literal filets of fish.

Just bite into it and look at the cross section. You are out of your mind

>But why haven’t fish sausages etc. been created before?

Apparently they have been. Google fish sausage or seafood sausage. There's a ton of recipes and there's other vendors selling them. To be honest I hadn't heard of them until now but it seems to be a thing.

There's an Ashkenazi Jewish dish called Gefilte fish that's a fish sausage. I doubt it's uniquely Jewish, so it's definitely a thing.

We've been trying to get rid of it for 100 years, my heart goes out to anyone just inventing it.

No. It's the best part of passover, with tons of horseraddish, yum.

I'll agree with you on horseradish anyway.

Indeed, it seems fish sausages are part of many cultures: in France, it's called "Quennelles de poisson" which is much fatter and more consistent...

https://www.marmiton.org/recettes/recette_quenelle-lyonnaise...

they sell ground fish at every Danish supermarket

It’s a characteristic of the food industry, which is shaped by business practices where big names will only sell their (fish finger) product next to acceptable other products that don’t challenge their brand, in combination with the high bar of meeting food regulations to protect consumers which makes it hard to invent processed food and of also getting consumers to try new food things. Not many people are food adventurous especially for fish type produce which is high risk.

What makes fish type produce high risk? Given that fish don't share as much biology with us as mammals do, I thought that there are far fewer fish parasites that can both survive cooking, and are harmful to humans.

Is the concern here that fish spoils faster?

I think that the concern is more about consumers and risk aversions.

Fish, particularly anything with "fishy" taste, is looked down upon in some cultures. It's also not really cheaper than other kinds of meat, so you kind of get the worst of both "a lot of people have a dislike of fish" and "it's expensive".

Surimi already exists & is quite common for ground fish

Fish sausages have been created before. They are pretty common here. I live in the Northeastern US, and big regional grocer here carries a couple different types. Most of the local sausage shops have an offering or two as well. Fish sausage is big in Asia too, they have all sorts of fish balls and even NOODLES. Both are essentially a firm fish sausage without a casing.

They do exist. Fish sticks are fish sausages. You can buy actual sausage shaped fish sausages at any asian market as well.

If you have had fake crab on a sushi roll, you have pretty much got 90% of the way there.

I will say that I don't think the spice blends used in a western sausage would do particularly well in fish. When you see fish balls or fish cakes in Asian cooking they're seasoned differently, light and a bit sweet.

I would also love a ground fish option, even if it's frozen. Fish burgers can be phenomenal when done right! I usually settle for canned, but the canning process definitely seems to have a pretty pronounced effect on flavor.

I remember it was a thing back when I was a kid back in soviet union. Fish sausage and fish links. Ah we also had Fish Day - every Thursday.

Good for her. Sounds like she nailed a market need and got the timing right.

Now you just gotta stay ahead. There’s no patent protection for things like fish sausage so there will be a lot of challengers in the space.

I always worry about our oceans. We farm them as if there is a limitless supply and our actions have no consequences. Frankly African consumption is probably nowhere close to what the west has an appetite for or some of the Asian countries have. Can only wonder about what happens when the consumption goes up in other parts of the world including Africa.

> We farm them as if there is a limitless supply and our actions have no consequences.

Farm isn't quite the correct word. All we do is take.

This story is about farmed fish (ie: fish raised in man made, fresh water fish ponds/tanks). Not wild fish taken from the sea.

To be clear, this story is about farmed fish from inland, fresh-water fish farms. No sea involved. Fish farms can still cause pollution, of course, but if well managed they should be no worse than any other farm.

Depends to some extent what they're feeding the fish.

Some farmed fish are fed wild-caught fishmeal and fish oil from smaller fish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forage_fish#Use_as_animal_feed

...unless the feed comes from their nearby coast --

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/03/08/fish-farming-i...

(google translated from German) --

https://www-spiegel-de.translate.goog/ausland/gambia-chinas-...

Did you read the comment I was responding to?

> I always worry about our oceans. We farm them as if there is a limitless supply and our actions have no consequences.

Agree but the small independent fish farmers in Africa are not to blame. These are like 1 or 2 people operations. Really nothing compared to the ocean raiding by western and eastern fishing vessels.

Well, we did until the mid-90s. North Atlantic fishing hasn't been as unregulated as to presume "limitless supply" for about 30 years.

Those sound good. I want to try it.

I enjoy eating fish mostly because I get it fresh. Saussages are always my second choice and avoid them as much as I can

Not helpful for overfishing.

The article mentioned the fish were farmed.....

Speaking of food, dried corn snacks are practically non existent even though they're great with beer (also dried bread snacks).

Not dried unprocessed corn, I'm talking corn flour baked/fried into a chips-like snack, like we do potatoes. Bet you never heard of it.

Also, in the UK, they don't have dried fish/octopus snacks in pubs! A fucking island nation! It's the same old peanuts everywhere, come on!

Actually, that's most of Europe. Dried fish with beer is quite popular in Asia and even Russia.

Quite literally a multimillion dollar market right there.

On the ocean food issue: They've been in terminal decline for a while now. The future of seafood is farming. Today, half of the fish for human consumption is already farmed. Shame about the less farmable species.

> I'm talking corn flour baked/fried into a chips-like snack,

Those are quite common, they are called nacho chips or nachos, usually in a triangular shape.

> Dried fish with beer is quite popular in Asia and even Russia.

Besides beer, many types of fish-based chips are popular in Asia, I remember my daughter snacking on the when we were still living in Thailand. By the way they are not that hard to find in the West (you will have to visit an Asian food store).

Another type of chips that are not popular in the West, but absolutely delicious are dried seaweed chips (they are similar to the nori seaweed that wraps sushi, but dried).

Dried seaweed is at least not very hard to find in the US. You can even buy it in bulk at Costco.

They tick the boxes of a nutritious, non-fried low-calorie snack.

That's nice, it is also quite common here in Australia, due to the fact that Asian food is generally easy to find at least in large metropolitan areas.

> > I'm talking corn flour baked/fried into a chips-like snack,

> Those are quite common, they are called nacho chips or nachos, usually in a triangular shape.

I am curious where you have heard them called that.

I've lived for 40 years on the San Francisco Peninsula and South Bay, an area with a large Mexican population and a multitude of Mexican restaurants.

Here, and I think in most areas, those roughly-triangular chips are called tortilla chips. You may notice that one edge is rounded. This is because they are made from corn tortillas sliced into sections like a pizza.

In a context where it is clear that you mean tortilla chips and not something else like potato chips, they are often just called chips, e.g. chips and salsa or chips and guacamole.

There are also chips made from tortillas sliced into thin strips, used as a topping on a salad or soup. These are called tortilla strips.

The thicker, smaller chips like Fritos are called corn chips.

One difference between corn chips and tortilla chips is that corn chips are made from cornmeal. Tortillas and tortilla chips are made from corn that has been nixtamalized (cooked in an alkaline solution) and then ground into masa. This gives them a milder flavor than corn chips.

Nachos are something else entirely. Nachos are a plate of tortilla chips topped with cheese and baked or broiled until the cheese melts. Other ingredients like meat or peppers may be added, and the nachos are often topped with salsa after they come out of the oven.

Nacho chips don't exist here. If you were to order "nacho chips" in a Mexican restaurant, they would likely ask "Do you want nachos, or do you want chips?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nachos

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortilla_chip

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_chip

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixtamalization

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masa

I'm not sure where I've heard the term first but I grew up in Italy and lived in Australia for 10 years, neither of the two has a large Mexican minority and so it might be that people are more likely to mix up these terms or use them incorrectly. I did not know the difference between "nachos" and "tortilla chips" and I was under the impression that they were synonyms until I've read your comment, thank you for your detailed explanation! Also I did not know that tortilla chips and corn chips were not the same thing, that process that you described is really interesting, Mexican cuisine in general is very interesting I think

> Not dried unprocessed corn, I'm talking corn flour baked/fried into a chips-like snack, like we do potatoes. Bet you never heard of it.

Doritos, fritos, cheetos, nachos, tortilla chips, etc? It's very popular..

You'd be amazed how insular some people in the developed world can be. I had a house mate who moved from a major UK city to the other side of the world, but in her late twenties had never in her life eaten rice.

Rice!

> Not dried unprocessed corn, I'm talking corn flour baked/fried into a chips-like snack, like we do potatoes. Bet you never heard of it.

You've never heard of tortilla chips? Or the brand name Doritos?

I’m pretty sure he was joking. On the off chance that’s not the case, I’m really curious what country he’s from.

> Also, in the UK, they don't have dried fish/octopus snacks in pubs!

We have Scampi Fries (with no fish in them). Drying fish isn't really a UK thing.

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