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Comment by viktorcode | Hacker News Reader

I think the outrageous thing here is that Xcode contains Java runtime.

It's indeed quite ridiculous that a very tiny part of xcode requires Java, it's fun how Apple can keep such inconsistencies: why would a part of the development team of xcode use such a different tech compared to the rest of the software

It's part of the App Store upload process, and a legacy/holdover from using WebObjects 5 as part of the back-end for the original iTunes Music Store. WO5 was a full Java rewrite of WebObjects (which was originall Objective-C back when it was started at NeXT), because in around 2000 that seemed like a sensible choice given where the mindshare was in their target market (pretty enterprise - it was like $50k for a full deployment license at the time).

Really? Xcode is an IDE. Java is a language supported by Xcode, even if it’s (probably) not supported well. (And for a brief time, Java was even a language advocated for app development by Apple.)

Are you arguing that any IDE must contain JRE?

What an odd question. No. I was merely expressing surprise that someone would consider a copy of JRE in a big IDE like Xcode to be outrageous. I don't think it's outrageous. Saying that something isn't outrageous isn't synonymous with saying that it's a "must".

I agree, I should have worded that differently. My point is an IDE isn't entitled to have yet another runtime which is not used for core functionality just because it is an IDE.

I call it outrageous because the task itself (uploading to App Store Connect) don't require a separate runtime. It's likely an artefact from the past or convenience vehicle for whoever wrote it; another example of developer's convenience trumping user experience.

Personally I think it's outrageous that Apple doesn't maintain and distribute OpenJDK as part of macOS. Wouldn't even require much internal effort—they could just throw a bit of money at Adopt (or similar) to maintain it.

It would also be a download-on-first-use thing, much like Rosetta 2 or Xcode command line tools. Latest version only, updated regularly, updates delivered similarly to Safari Technology Preview. If you need a specific version, download it yourself.

Apple for a long time had WebObjects, a server-side Web Framework in ObjC, later Java, inherited from Next. Judging by URL structure a lot of Apple infrastructure likes the stores and iTunes Connect were build on Webobjects and possible still are.

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