A deep dive on a Facebook reseller of bikes stolen in Colorado
bikeindex.org
bikeindex.org
The government auctions off some of the bikes and gives or sells the rest of the bikes to charity.
Two years ago my bike was locked in a location it should not have been downtown along with many other bikes. When I came back to find my bike missing the police officer said all of the bikes were impounded. I called around, went to the impound place twice.. but my bike was never found.
In short, great investigation work by bike index. But their efforts are hindered by the city.
How hard is it to just publish the list of "found" and imponded bikes, that everyone can see?
Where are you seeing the difference?
Oh yeah - it was already being given parking tickets too. While it was reported stolen. I had to go to the local court in person in order to get the tickets revoked.
Law enforcement and the general institution of law does not care.
I've also seen cops change tires and things like that.
Even for people I knew in law enforcement in the rural areas - they didn't like to live in the area they were policing because of the consequences. You're now a local who has to live with the consequences of how you've treated people during your job.
That was fine for a while, but eventually it got hard for cities to attract new cops, a lot of them removed those rules.
I think there is only so much they can do from a systemic point of view, since they can't put the manpower into looking for them. When they are recovered it's usually because it's related to some other police activity that occurred and it was collateral to that. Same with bikes I think.
I always figured it was supposed to not work like this, as the title change is the one place you can catch it, but I guess not? Must be reporting it as abandoned when it really isn't.
I agree institutions are absurd and don't care enough though.
TLDR: Don't blame the street-level bureaucrats and everyone in the institution for policy failures.
You fail to understand that this is a public policy issue. I bet you the average individual cop does care. I use the term average so people don't resort to extremes (good cop or bad cop). His workload is so high that your issue falls below his threshold. It's not his fault, it's the fault of local public policy. It's undermanned and underfunded.
I remember my brother yelling at an Amazon driver for speeding. He's incentivized to do so by his employer. Yes, the driver probably shouldn't speed, but he's also not making very much money and needs this job. His employer is likely more guilty for not providing additional drivers, at cost, to allow safety. But that would be a market imperfection due to externalities which are not regulated (the externality being public safety - the cost of which the private institution generally does not bear). The same type of issue occurrs in the public policy arena, but the failure is on the lack of funding towards a known issue which results in poor services to the public. No, people cannot do more with less with zero losses.
This is probably a big part of the problem really, why would they care about getting property back to the owners when they can profit from it?
Nothing special about this. If anything of yours is stolen, the cops will not help you recover it.
Honestly, I don't really think police should be in the business of tracking down stolen items unless finding the items leads them to the theives. So unless the theft of items is under some larger crime, why should cops be on the look out for a bicycle/car/tv/xbox/etc?
It's pretty much what insurance is for. Now, I'd much rather the police investigate the crimes committed by insurance companies on not paying out the claims. At least, that should be a crime.
Not the same thing. The parent comment is saying that the police department is getting ahold of the stolen bikes, but not making any effort to return them to their rightful owners.
If your stolen car is abandoned somewhere and found by the police, you'll be getting a call ASAP. They're obviously not out there scanning every car on the road to see if it's yours, but if it comes into their possession it's going to find its way back to the registered owner very quickly.
I was very surprised to read in a big city newspaper recently that the city's police department had a 70-something percent success rate in recovering stolen cars and returning them to their owners.
I was really shocked, because I just assumed that it would be like that scene in The Big Lebowski where the cop laughs when the guy who's car was stolen asks if they have any leads. It turns out that's not the reality at all.
I know a lot of police have quit and they don't have budget to increase next class size. Vaccines too..
Sympathizers say that cities' new rules on when to engage are a big cause but it seems to me we can have both enforcement and no needless violence. To me it feels like police are just having a temper tantrum saying you don't want us, watch what happens when we don't do anything.
I see cop cars breaking traffic laws around cap hill and downtown and just driving around staring at the homeless camps. Flipping on lights to go the wrong way down a one way street around civic building. When there is an OD (all the time) I just see them sitting in their car doing nothing but wait for paramedics. zero humanity.
I can't remember the last time I've seen a traffic enforcement stop and speeding & illegal parking is out of control.
I'm not sure if it's uniquely bad here? I know theft is increasing everywhere.
I've had my car broken into four times this year, often they just pull on the topper until it breaks open. Usually nothing in there. Once went through back window to the front. If a package is in the entrance more than a day it will be gone.
Last year I had a probably 300 pound, 4' x 6' wooden crate stolen from my back parking lot! insane. It was a pretty expensive marble sink top.
I've installed cameras and more lights doesn't matter or make any difference.
Somewhat off topic but insurance lady on the phone spent 20 minutes on hold trying to find a way to reject the claim... Same with my recent travel insurance. Provide them the bare minimum documentation and say nothing beyond a couple sentences on the phone they will just sit quietly on the phone waiting for you to say something, often emotionally since something crappy happened. they are looking for anything to use against your claim. Sucks.
But they just don't have enough of funding is always the big complaint. And it's bullshit when they walk around with body armor and use military equipment from Iraq.
Crimes only get solved accidentally by cops. If they happen to see it go down and then somehow catch them in the act
Bike theft is one of the rampant issues in areas with excessive drug use, etc. Nearly every homeless encampment in west coast cities will have one or more people with piles of bikes and bike parts.
I understood then what it meant to feal 'violated'. I was also shocked that the cops seemed to be 'going through the motions'. They dusted for prints and took the identifying information I gave them, but I was expecting a little more action. I suppose I got that idea from tv.
Now that time has passed and I've had time to cool down, I think I better understand what I saw happening. The small-ish city I live in has a small police force, they're almost always busy with some minor crimes, probably domestic disputes, drunk drivers, traffic safety, etc. There's just not time fo r the pawn-shop snooping I was imagining.
I suppose if they had more budget, then there might be manpower for more activities. But I think the funding is about right-- I wouldn't want to pay for any more, and I wouldn't want any less safety.
My grandfather drove me around the town the next day to see if I could spot it. When we were about to give up, I noticed a bike leaning along side a house near the shop. I could see it from the street. It looked exactly like mine. It had the same replacement seat and even a curly bike lock coiled around the handlebars on the same side I left it. But it had been hastily spray pained.
We called the police, they arrived and a kid inside noticed the commotion and came out. They had found the bike at the shop and took it. I went to inspect it. I was very surprised when I found the small yard behind the house was packed with around fifty bikes. To the cop, I said something like, "there's tons of bikes back here!" I then remembered another friend had theirs stolen as well.
He didn't look for himself, and said I couldn't just take the bike. There was no proof it was mine. So, I said, "what if I can unlock the bike lock?" I could and was allowed to take it, but it had been ruined. My prized shiny bike had been banged up and spray painted.
The following week my mother read me a letter that had arrived. The town would not be prosecuting the kid. I was confused. I did nothing wrong and stayed out of trouble myself. Did their actions not warrant any consequences?
My mother ended up going to the police department and insisting the town prosecute, which they ended up doing. I'm not sure what happened. Did the consequences dissuade them from stealing a 51st bike? Their family had failed them, would their community? If not for religion, what hope did they have?
I knew the police would not really look for a bike so I scoured Craigslist, OfferUp, and Facebook Marketplace. Eventually I found the bike both times. I messaged the person to meet up, called the police, and provided my report number and the listing. The police met up the people and got my bike back twice.
What happened to the thieves that stole my bike twice and broke my expensive locks? Absolutely nothing. When I asked the cop why they weren't cited or charged, he said they were fences. Guess if you're a fence, you can get away with selling stolen goods because you can claim you thought you bought the item legitimately. I'm sure those fences were selling other people's bikes as well, but cops didn't do anything.
The deterrence for small crimes is slowly falling as thieves are realizing that the cops are not punishing thieves even after catching them red-handed.
I feel like there is an unpleasant reality that people either don’t realize or don’t want to accept… there is simply not enough resources to go after every petty criminal with prosecution. Honestly, I am not even sure it would be a good idea even if we had the resources… should we spend thousands on a prosecution over a $50 crime? Will that actually reduce crime enough to make it worthwhile?
Criminal prosecution works as a deterrent by being something that CAN happen for minor crimes, but doesn’t always… the chance they could be prosecuted hopefully deters most would be criminals, and only prosecuting a few saves money and is more efficient.
"Adrian Rocha Chairez is charged with 31 felony counts including racketeering. Police say he headed up an organized crime ring responsible for more than a million dollars in damaged property and stolen cars and bikes. He was indicted in Denver, where a judge set bond at $500,000.
A Boulder judge knocked it down to $10,000. He walked out even after prosecutors noted he had weapons and ties to Mexico."
[0] https://denver.cbslocal.com/2021/12/08/boulder-pr-bonds-murr...
That's Boulder for you
That sounds like enough reason on its own to lock the dude up, right? Would the bond reduction be OK if the guy had ties to (say) Scotland?
Donations to 529 are encouraged and you can buy their sticker, but you can also register your new bike for free just by taking a few photos of it, your bill of sale, and its serial number (typically embossed into the bottom bracket somewhere). Takes a max of 5-10 minutes to do to set up new account and register a bike.
I am loathe to recommend the use of Facebook for anything, but people in the metro Vancouver area have taken it on themselves to create a group called Stolen Bikes Vancouver which has successfully crowdsourced the location and return of bikes to some people. It's at least better than doing nothing, in the almost total lack of law enforcement cooperation.
This read (to me) as "sure, but the REAL thing is over here", stated as authoritative fact, not a one person sample size anecdote.
from the bikeindex faq (https://bikeindex.org/help):
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Right now people with good intentions buy stolen bikes because there isn't a single searchable, simple resource to check before buying a bike.
Bike Index is that resource. The next time you buy a used bike, check the Index first.
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529 garage also would seem to present as if it is the only source of data...
https://project529.com/garage/faq/en/
in reality I think the data is split between the two sites. My bike is registered on 529, this has provided motivation to me to also submit the same photos/data to bikeindex for a belt and suspenders type approach.
According to this page, project529 uses bikeindex's stolen bike reports in its own listings, but doesn't share its data with bikeindex.
https://bicyclesecurityadvisors.com/protect-your-bike/index-...
Ideally they could both share data and mirror each other for both registrations and stolen bike listings, for the most effective use by people who may be unaware of the other entity.
Is it? A central theme of the article is how Facebook is facilitating bike theft by providing essential electronic storefront space, and that you can't get Facebook to take down such storefronts.
simultaneously you've got stolen bike sales going on within the facebook marketplace and also a group of people trying to find/recover their stolen bikes.
This really surprised me given the difficulty I had with Facebook Marketplace incorrectly taking down my listings and refusing to put them back up (one was an empty aquarium, taken down for selling "live animals").
> [...]
> There is no button to click where you can explain to anybody at FB "this is a repeat seller of bikes stolen in Colorado, and here's our proof, and here's our contact info." etc. It is almost as if their system for reporting stolen goods is designed not to work.
So "storefront for stolen goods" is another way Facebook makes our lives worse.
People selling bikes include both first-hand buyers and second-hand buyers (people who bought it from someone else).
Without a central registry like what we have for cars, I don't know what Facebook could do.
Is there a possible way for FB and other similar places (offerup, pawn shops, etc.) to verify without some central registry?
Also the legislature could make laws to make it easier to send bike thieves to jail.
The government != Facebook and it's better that way since we can vote to change things that we find wrong with the government, but lack that ability with FB
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=east+hast...
If it is really high end (like $7000+ Canadian dollar value) and the theft was targeted rather than random, more likely it might get parted out/sold as components on facebook or sent to another provice for sale by an organized group. Very occasionally Vancouver police or RCMP will find a storage unit full of $7000+ bikes that are being collected together in one place prior to transport out of province.
Acquire some bait bikes, then put some 40mm GPS trackers somewhere unusual in the bike (the chain stays?), maybe this requires a bit of surgery, but this seems like a relatively small cost. Then raid whatever warehouse they end up in.
I guess there's no real political will to do this.
Some sort of GPS+LTE data modem and battery might be easily integrated into a seatpost based tracker, or stem, or combined stem-bar unit. A bit tricky since either aluminum or carbon fiber structural components are RF opaque.
maybe mounted in one of the areas in the downtube or seat tube that's designed into modern road bikes for ultegra/di2 internal battery mounting, or related to power meter crankset mounting.
After that people can add fake trackers (maybe an antenna lead under the seat). Now the thieves have extra uncertainty, raising the cost to steal. And working trackers will be mixed in with the fake ones, making each bike a gamble.
On a bait bike it wouldn’t matter too much since you just want to track the thing and shouldn’t really care about the thieves getting a fully working bike.
I had this “bait bike” in the back of my pickup truck that was in very bad shape that helped a kid down the street get their stolen bike back, apparently the thief decided that the bike I had was better than their current stolen one so did a quick swap and another neighbor saw my bike dumped around the corner, a bike lying in the street next to my truck and put two and two together. Worked out pretty well considering I found the one bike on the side of the road while walking my dog and threw it in my truck to see how long it would take to get stolen — didn’t think it would last a week but I drove around with that thing for seven months.
Correct. Police generally don't give two figs about property crime.
My inbox became:
a) various cyclists in Mexico giving me more info b) new victims who have read the article, identifying their stolen bikes in this guy's sales that we posted, including commercial shop robberies c) people sending copies of his "official message" to his clients he posted, in which he denies the claims we make and essentially calls us liars, etc and asks for his customers support
After that, Mexican Cycling FB picked it up. FWIW Mex cycling folks are awesome, we had some really good input and comms with folks in that community.
For about 24 hours the store would remove any negative comments from their page from cyclists and/or customers, far as we could tell, and all his customers were chiming in how much of a great shop he was with great deals and great service. Nobody would address the proof we posted of stolen in his sales.
As of an hour ago (?) or so the guys page is now gone.
Also, could you please try to get this posted on Pinkbike/VitalMTB? Would like to see this shared on other common bike sites.
Would it be a waste of money to use these strictly on roads?
check out "14B.90.080 Reporting of Secondhand Dealer Transactions"
details differ by state and city, but the gist is "electronic records of serials are transmitted to law enforcement" etc. Also items are held for a while, not sold immediately.
Which is a good thing, by the way!