Ask HN: Why Telegram gets no love from HN? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Why Telegram gets no love from HN?

15 pointsp1anecrazy16 comments

Every time I come across a mention of Telegram here, most of the comments vehemently attack it for bad encryption approach and misleading users.

Smoothly running a communication platform for 500 millions MAU with unlimited uploads volume seems to be a huge technical endeavor. I would expect people working in tech to be interested in it and support the ingenuity behind it. I guess many of us would say that it’s a too complicated task to handle. Somebody who actually can do it, like Nikolai (Pavel’s brother) Durov, a multiple winner of international programming competitions, may rightfully consider himself to be smarter/more knowledgeable in this area than most other people. There was no major leaks or downtime yet during their rapid growth, so for now his calculations hold true. (This doesn’t assume a proprietary protocol was a right decision).

I’m not saying that security flaws should be ignored; I’m just surprised no one tries to get in their shoes and treat the project as a whole.

I completely agree with this assertion. Anything related to Telegram gets ignored or downvoted. Their "Russian origins" raise red flags among the predominant western audiences; even if their current HQ is in Dubai. I am not overtly concerned about encryption, as long as their business model doesn't involve selling my data. I'd be delighted to sign up as a supporter if they announce subscriptions. They have a brilliant cross platform support, free API for third party clients (some of which have more features than the official applications), rapid release (almost every 3-4 weeks) and class leading features.

Their BOT api works like "pipeline for extensions" - therefore you have a rich and vibrant bot ecosystem. In my private group, bots help me fetch specific files, download via torrents, and upload everything.

The groups can now disallow forwarding or taking screenshots of the comments.

Signal is a perfect application to replace WhatsApp if users are concerned about privacy. However, it remains limited with some innovative features, like notification profiles in the latest stable update.

Telegram, however, remains my daily driver - video calling and voice calling have improved rapidly. Group video calling/streaming is feasible via Telegram channels. I record group voice calls to share feedback+ archive discussion to refer back to it. The new browser version of Telegram (web Z) now has experimental support for video calling (announced on 18th December 2021). The web version of Telegram auto-updates in background.

Telegram is awesome. I agree with OP that it requires more than a cursory look from the HN community purely for its merit, rather than dissing it on "encryption". By the way, Secret Chats (not by default) are end to end encrypted.

All features of Telegram secret chats were copied by Signal as default. Secret chats don't sync between devices, though I have heard they might be working on this in the future. It's not confirmed and is hearsay.

I hope more users from HN are encouraged to explore this application.

Yes, Telegram WANTS you to explore their free app infested with paid backdoors, a portal for marketing BIGDATA querying, ID trackings and in-your-face advertisements.

Oh, they’ll let you use the E2EE feature that Signal provided by open-source but only if you explicitly and individually enable them, but not as a default ON feature.

Telegram has been developed by Pavel Durov the founder of the russian social network VK. It was infamous for storing user passwords in plain text and many other data privacy issues. So his track record when it comes to data security and privacy is really bad. I wouldn‘t trust any software developed by Durov. Security and privacy is simply not important to him. This makes Telegram very unpopular at HN.

My biggest problem with Telegram is the lack of a business model. People need to eat and pay the bills. We know the results of a model where the users aren't the ones paying for it (everything wrong with all mainstream social media platforms can be mitigated overnight by moving from an ads/engagement model to a paid account model) and Telegram looks like it won't be any different.

Subscriptions are planned for 2022. Ads in channels with more than 1000 subscribers are in testing phase now. They won't spam the groups (private or public) and one to one conversations.

> multiple winner of international programming competitions

Not saying anything about the rest, but I've never heard this as a good proxy for actual good or secure code. It's not like an sport where you can measure the actual outcome desired and I don't think a lot of people who are claimed to be good in this area care or participate.

It gets a lot of shit here but it's pretty much straightforward. It works the way a modern messaging platform is expected:

- leaks a bit of your data and metadata (expected, various laws and jurisdictions, what do you expect)

- functions on web, desktop, mobile

- functions well on low-end devices

- clients can be reimplemented open source

- has great developer api and documentation for bots

Try comparing that to WeChat, Whatsapp, Viber, Line, Instagram, Messenger.

Comparing it to Signal doesn't make sense, they got different intended purposes (security vs general purpose usefulness), and they serve different markets. Your average user doesn't care about security at all, most just want a better messaging user experience.

Maybe because Telegram had been lying for years and deliberately confusing end-to-end transport encrypted with end-to-end message encrypted?

I’ll never trust Telegram.

Not being required to share your real phone number with other endpoints is a big security feature for Telegram beyond anything to do with encryption.

still that tangible “can’t have all three” anonymous traits of any secured IM platform: identity, content, anti-replayability.

interesting, where do i read more about these 3 traits?

It is what i’ve learned from working the IM protocols, cryptography and related to privacy.

There is no love for any IM provider who stores message content AND its decryption key, unless you need to see OTHERS’ content.

There are basically two viable next-gen messengers: Telegram and Signal. One has an open encryption protocol and a founder who is much better connected in Silicon Valley.

What about Threema and Matrix?

Telegram is great for the simple fact that it's not owned by Zuck.

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