Entanglement between superconducting qubits and a tardigrade
arxiv.org
arxiv.org
Either the story is interesting and significant [1] or it shouldn't be on HN's front page. Either way, the thread shouldn't fill up with shallow internet reflux. I get that the novelty of this story is activating, but we're trying for something different here.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
[1] which does seem to be the case? I can't really tell. But this alone is significant: "setting a new record for the conditions that a complex form of life can survive"
Edit: I'm downweighting this as some sort of parody, barring more information.
https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=C6BzRwwAAAAJ
You'll have to take my word for it, as I don't currently have a university job. For some reason, Google doesn't let you authenticate your Scholar account with your ORCID account, even though they trust ORCID to verify that you wrote the papers.
This paper sounds legitimate to me. If it was made up, it would be a fraud, not a spoof. That's unlikely, because the authors come from the most legitimate institutions there are (The University of Oxford, The National University of Singapore). ArXiv verifies institutional affiliation. Even if it is made up, the experiment is plausible.
I can get how it sounds like a spoof. I laughed out loud at:
> We simulate the electric fields and capacitance shifts using ANSYS Maxwell where the tardigrade is modelled as a cube of length 100μm
I.e, they literally assume a cubical tardigrade in a vacuum!
Actually, I did present this experiment as a spoof, at a physics department O-week camp 20 years ago. I think we used a monkey instead of a tardigrade. It was as lame as it sounds.
> My favorite laugh line from the paper: "Maximum likelihood estimation was then employed to prevent the resulting density matrix from having nonphysical properties."
What they did is totally legitimate. Reconstructing density matrices is numerically unstable, a bit like any computerized tomography. This is similar to constraining a noisy CAT scan, to avoid the "nonphysical property" that the air at some point in your lungs has density less than zero.
Engtangling a live animal is a hell of a party trick. No doubt about that. So how much does this matter scientifically? Here we're getting into subjective territory, and what follows is my opinion.
The surprising aspect is biological, not physical. I might have guessed that, if you cooled a tardigrade to the temperature that quantum electronics operate at, you could use it as a quantum electronic component. I wouldn't have guessed that the tardigrade would get up and walk away afterwards!
The philosophical significance? It depends, of course. For materialists like me, who make sense of quantum wierdness the Everettian way, it makes no difference. Of course electrons can get entangled, and the electrons in a tardigrade—or a physicist—are still electrons. (The price we pay is a very, very, odd sense of personal identity.)
For idealists, this is quite a big deal. If you insist that you are a definite state of consciousness, then you need to draw a line somewhere, between the part of the universe that is you, and the other parts that can be quantum superpositions. Twenty years ago, that was easy: you're an animal, not an atom, duh.
This makes it a bit harder: you're a ... big animal? How big, exactly? You could be some non-electronic degree of freedom, but surely that's a stretch neurologically.
It's a lot easier to draw a categorical distinction of animal vs mineral than of human-like observers vs other animals. If they can entangle a tardigrade, then in principle they could entangle your pet dog. Is it much comfort that they can't, yet, entangle you?
I may be wrong, but my sense is that the authors confused things a bit for the general internet reader by (let's say) not entirely resisting the troll potential here.
Entirely possible. The sad thing is, when I've seen physicists take the "no such thing as bad publicity" approach, it's worked. University presidents watch the news too.
I won't really comment on whether the authors did what they said, except to point out that academics are highly incentivized to make their work sound both more "significant" (that is, important beyond what they did in their lab) and "impressive" (that is, a greater technical achievement than what they did in their lab).
"We place a tardigrade tun on a superconducting transmon qubit and observe coupling between the qubit and the tardigrade tun via a shift in the resonance frequency of the new qubit-tardigrade system. This joint qubit-tardigrade system is then entangled with a second superconducting qubit."
I would argue that it isn’t living when it’s at mK temperatures, but that it is frozen/dead but revivable (like the children who have fallen recently off of bridges in to frozen rivers and been revived hours later).
Life is amazing.
However if you have to freeze the human to a complete metabolic halt (to achieve coherence), then it seems that it wouldn't be able to experience anything at all? And if you don't freeze the human, then it would be impossible to entangle it with an external system?
Then, I guess one could argue that you could build a more thermally efficient system (say an AGI) that can experience and tell us about what it feels like to be entangled. But in order for it to experience/think, it would need to do some computation, so is subject to the Landauer's limit, and would need to release heat, which will also break the coherence? Has anyone done this kind of calculation?
Is there any reason to suspect it wouldn't feel completely normal? Obviously whether we're entangled all the time varies depending on which model of QM you're working with (any linear model like MW would say we are), but I can't think of an interpretation that would predict a difference in subjective experience of a quantum system that's entangled from the POV of some observer outside the system.
Exactly
> an interpretation that would predict a difference in subjective experience
Chaos makes this effectively impossible to achieve, but: what if you (embedded in the experiment) could achieve the exact same end state via multiple different intermediate states, ie in one case you observed the qubit on, and in the other you observed it off. Now what would you remember?
And if that's true, then our notions of AI are seriously underestimated. (Which is what biologist Brian J Ford has been saying for a long time...)
Quantum mechanics rocked the physics world a century ago, perhaps now it will do the same to biology and computer science...?
https://www.quantumlah.org/about/highlight/2019-09-cockroach...
>The award was presented for the paper “In-vivo biomagnetic characterisation of the American cockroach", published in Scientific Reports in March 2018 by Rainer and five collaborators
My favorite laugh line from the paper: "Maximum likelihood estimation was then employed to prevent the resulting density matrix from having nonphysical properties."
In other words, "We made up some numbers that looked impressive"
Have reread it since and just can't see it, or see the joke if it's meant as one.
“Entangle yourself to your successful universe”
“Science proves life is quantum”
“What entanglement to life proves about our spiritual path”
“
Imagine if there were coding boot camps that were entirely based on developing a good vibe with the computer, and didn’t involve learning about how to write code at all. People go in, “learn” something, but then they try to get a coding job and fall flat on their face because they don’t actually know anything. This is exactly the state of quantum physics re: the general public. I would guess as a scientist it would get demoralizing.
From my experience the industry is sorely lacking people who have developed a good vibe with the computer and we can probably trace the root cause of a lot of the major systemic issues we see to that. This boot camp sounds great.
Not quite zen cracking, but that's getting closer to the old +ORC ideology.
If not, why not?
It's the science equivalent of labeling someone a "conspiracy nut" in politics, where CIA manipulation of the media (a real thing with plenty of evidence) gets bucketed with reptilian overlords to unfairly denigrate the former valid theory.
There is absolutely a ruling class with personal interest in the status quo within the scientific community that applies unthinking skepticism to perfectly valid ideas to protect their own agendas. I'd recommend listening to Dr. Avi Loeb's thoughts on this.
It’s the difference between seeing the Bible as inspirational and believing that the earth is literally 6000 old and Christ Is Coming Back Soon; take this course to prepare to Meet Him.
If you compromise on truth in order to further your goals, you’re just priming people to be susceptible to conspiracy theories and other actually harmful untruthful ideas like that Bill Gates literally is putting nanochips inside vaccines.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that most of my hippie friends seem to have turned antivaxx on unscientific grounds lately.
In some cases,absolutely! If the results of such bending of meaning weren't actively harmful (eg Vaccine denialism) perhaps it could be ignored.
I seriously doubt any quantum mysticism is true, and I'm happy to defer to the physicists to get my woo from QM as in this experiment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestrated_objective_reducti...
One good reason for not lumping ORR in with crystal healing (beyond the rigor and erudition applied to the theories) is that ORR addresses what most would consider a real mystery in our understanding of the mind (however you define that), while crystal healing addresses something demonstrably false.
I'll still contend there's some quantum woo to ORR, but for that reason it's been a brave attempt to further scientific knowledge.
This is what makes it so effective of a term, as it accurately describes the activities, behaviors, and ideologies to which it is applied!
> This is no different from McCarthyism
What US Government official are blacklisting actors, politicians, and public officials for practicing new age-ism analogously to what McCarthy did for real and alleged communist sympathizers? None of note. And if there is legislation introduced that bans non-harming practices of belief, let us join arms and fight it together.
In case you've read more into my comment or this chain, here is a recap:
Here is what you said:
>>>> The term "woo" is so condescending and useless.
Here is what I said:
>>> This is what makes it so effective of a term, as it accurately describes the activities, behaviors, and ideologies to which it is applied!
Note:
- No "they"
- No calls for persecution
What you read in my comment is simply an identification that the term "woo" accurately describes people who misapply attributes of quantum behavior to new age claims (and those who accept such attribution), as it is apt as one that describes the uselessness and base superstitiousness of such behavior, activities, and supporting ideologies.
!!!
https://www.wired.com/story/a-crashed-israeli-lunar-lander-s...
definitely not a desert planet. or one named Arrakis. or Dune
oh wait... we must
And modern Star Trek rocks. Definitely a different groove but a fun one regardless.
edit: my poor spelling.
No excuse for Michael though, she really put me off.
To their credit they did joke about get behaviour in season 3.
On the other hand, I really loved Saru. Getting him replaced as captain... I don't know if I want to watch season 4 :/
+1 on that. Those snobs are tiresome. Firs they shitted ST: Enterprise out of existence (which now they keep on whining how underrated it was), now they are pooping all over the place on all modern stuff.
Here are some of the elements off the top of my head
1. Takes place in the same universe
2. The characters belong to Starfleet
3. Spock
4. Based on Star Trek created by Gene Roddenberry
5. *spoiler* Cardassian Federation President in Season 4
6. Trills
7. Warp drives
8. Replicators
9. Romulans merging with Vulcans to reunify
10. Synthetic humanoid modeled after Data, Lore, etc.
11. New stuff like Tardigrades
12. Mirror universe
13. Unified earth
14. Klingons
15. Ferengi
I mean, I get it, original Star Trek is super campy, but like all the ST since ST:TOS, ST:D is inclusive, prioritizes working together to solve monumental challenges, and breaks cultural barriers many people don't even realize exist unless they are marginalized.
And damn, they got amazing Tardigrades. Such a cool run at the concept. I really enjoy the show for what it is, not to satisfy some deep longing for legacy Star Trek. Picard satisfies the legacy urges nicely.
The old show was about professional people working together to do their job, the new show is about a team of people acting like a bunch of immature teenagers, completely driven by whatever emotion happens to come over them this episode, always acting short sighted and having arguments and panic attacks. It's exactly the sort of junk psychology that made Space: 1999 such an awful show. Like, how are these people allowed aboard a space ship. Wouldn't calm-under-pressure be the first thing you look in when you recruit someone for a position like that?
Watching TOS in full was very eye opening to how much current cultural memory of what that show was doesn't match what was actually in the show.
Personal example I believe is representative. I grew up with three movies we'd watch in this hacked-together Frankenstein of a travel van with a tiny TV: Dantes Peak, The Cowboy Way, and Mac and Me. I'm 100% sure these were picked up in the bargain bin sale.
I loved them all at the time, because at the time they represented all the excitement of a vacation -- none were great, and Mac and Me is objectively TERRIBLE!!!
I keep an ear out for these kinds of things. ST:TOS definitely hits this note, long and loud (there was a reason there were few seasons). So does ST:TNG, but its actually really good.
ST:TOS I highly recommend because it remains engaging/entertaining and is fascinating to see as a lens into the late 60s, but "good" it is not.
ST:TNG I love and I think is the better show but it shocked me too when I tried to rewatch in order after ST:TOS. The first seasons are not great! I really had erased a lot of it from my memory. I realize now that it's not until a couple seasons in that it became the show I remember, that show was lucky to hang in there long enough to hit its stride.
/peace out
Apparently Disneyland + shroomwater in a camelpak make you really think its a small world after all.
Maybe cow crap makes for regular 'ol shrooms, but horse crap makes for great shrooms?
* I am not advocating for the use of drugs.
I am! :P
I hope this is not the beginning of quantum tardigrade computing. (Because that has Netflix Original all over it.)