The Great British Reading List | Hacker News Reader

The Great British Reading List

longreads.com

57 pointsaxiomdata31638 comments

So instead of reading this nasty list of anti-British propaganda pieces, there's an actually decent list of British books, which was put online by "Culture Trip", whoever they are:

https://theculturetrip.com/europe/united-kingdom/england/art...

This covers a wide range of history, and does cover (pre)modern culture - Zadie Smith's "White Teeth", for example.

That is a good list. I'll submit one opinion about the English, that we don't do theory and express ourselves and ideas best in fiction.

There is one on the list that is "the long con of Britishness", not sure how the rest can be seen as "anti British".

"Why I'm utterly sick of going for a walk" strikes at British culture in a very particularly Guardianish way. Then we have a class diatribe and a Brexit moan. I'll give you the marmalade.

The walk thing I just found amusing, my parents loved walking but I hated it as a kid, came to appreciate it more.

Then in the lockdown with a small child, with one nice walk nearby, walking it again and again it goes so boring - it resonated as something funny, it seems like people are looking for things to be offended by?

It's also funny as Guardian readers are right in the "going for a walk" demographic - it's poking fun at themselves.

Given that Brexit is by any objective measure an act purely of destruction, born of fear and selfishness, I think a moan might be justified.

I fear that your objective judgements may be biased.

The list is a personal selection - some critical of and some positive towards aspects of British culture. I'm not sure why it's upset you so, unless you either believe that there are no unattractive aspects of British culture, or that nobody should ever comment on the unattractive aspects.

A "Great British" list of books shouldn't focus in the majority on left-wing critique. Like I said elsewhere, I'll give you the marmalade, but the rest is the product of metropolitan miserabilists.

Half of the 6 reads seem like gently sympathetic descriptions of peculiarities of British life (the popularity of holiday walks in bad weather, marmalade and pets). I don't see the source of the offence in any of these stories - but then again, I'm not British.

I'm English and I think this list is terrible. It won't help you understand this country except for the narrow section of opinion that went mad after the Brexit vote.

I won't make an alternative list but reading The Pickwick Papers will give more profit than this whole list.

Yes, this list is really focused on "why Britain has always been crap and is even crapper after Brexit". A genre that has become ubiquitous in recent years. It's almost entirely composed of books and articles written by anti-Brexit Guardian and Indie writers.

"... crapper after Brexit".

Well, looking around ... that element of the statement is 100% correct. Looking to emigrate from this sinking ship.

Things are certainly a bit crap at the moment—there is a global pandemic on, after all. But I find the constant "post Brexit, ergo propter Brexit" stuff tiresome and tendentious. I voted Remain, but Brexit is done and now we have to get on with things. I'm not sure it's any better in the U.S. or France—there's a good chance France is about to vote for a president that makes Boris look reasonable by comparison, for example. Scandinavia might be nice if you're looking to turn your back on your country, but there's no guarantee they'll take you.

I take your point, but the "you do realise there is a global pandemic on" take I hear often is also tiresome.

I'm experiencing first-hand, in our business, the hassles and challenges that have come with Brexit (during a global pandemic) and I genuinely just throw my hands up and say "WTF were we thinking".

I'm considering New Zealand. Slightly cliche in tech circles now, I know, but I spent a year there 10 years ago and looking to go back now. Note, this is my down-slope plan. I don't need to be in the traditional centres of business. I'm not trying to disrupt tech or earn a billy!

And, with respect, I don't consider this my country. Plenty of lovely people here, and I feel for them, but the place has gone off the deep end.

What a miserable list. The ordinary Brits I know - friends and coworkers - are kind, hardworking and tolerant. That includes the people I know who voted for Brexit. And the British seaside is great - go to Scarborough for a day in the summer and watch families (plenty of Asian families now) playing cricket on the beach. Britain's doing ok.

So, you like long walks or not? And the who killed the cat book is bad insurance opinion?

For a list supposedly compiled by someone introducing themselves as a Brit returning from abroad it's funny how it reads as a mixture of cross Atlantic cliche (ah yes, those funny, quirky Brits and their marmalade) to the usual tired stuff about how the national character has supposedly changed over night with the advent of Brexit.

The UK isn't without its challenges and issues at the moment but there are many far worse places you could find to live.

- Porterhouse Blue - House of Cards - Any of Spike Milligan's memoirs - The Diary of Samuel Pepys - A Dance to the Music of Time - Any of the Flashman novels - Any of the novels on this list: https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20151204-the-100-greates...

I've no opinion on these books as I've not read 'em. Some hackles raised by them it seems? I dare say it's a political bias one way or the other.

I can't offer much on the "British" as we're diverse countries with not so much in common. But for the one I feel qualified to speak on, England, try Kate Fox's excellent "Watching the English." It's a bit cosy, so don't read it if you want to see us eviscerated, but it's well observed for all that.

"Whatever the reason, Great Britain is an obscure place". Obscure to whom?

I hope Longreads will let us know about other obscure places: New York, Los Angeles, Paris, Rome...

This just seems so boring and negative. Read Sherlock Holmes if you want something awesome and British. Forget this rubbish.

Amusing to see the marmalade article on here, contrary to it - most people do not have marmalade for breakfast in the UK.

My take is that a ruling class developed in the UK from the time of Blair's election through to the 2016 referendum. These were folks in my demographic, born in the 1970's, state educated (up to and including postgraduate Oxbridge) and exposed to the first waves of always on media. They watched Gulf War 1 on CNN and they probably went on marches against Gulf War 2, but forgot about it more or less immediately after all the bombs had dropped. In general the live in large cities, many in London or Bristol or Oxford or Manchester or Leeds or Edinburgh. Fewer in Liverpool or Cardiff or Belfast or Glasgow though.

This class bought into the vision of a united europe because it brought direct benefits for them. They could get cheap goods & services and they could earn loads in the City. They also like the idea and practice of a united europe because it insulated them from the reality of the UK in terms of the actuality of the infrastructure, civil institutions and democratic structures. This allowed folks to disengage from the process of smashing up local government and the civil service, instead the action was in Westminster and Brussels - and with the commission.

The processes above meant that the wheal of the UK population has to live with disfunctional services. Local transportation is greatly reduced from historic levels (no buses), the health service is strained to look after a dumbell demographic (old brits who consume healtcare but don't pay, young migrants who consume healthcare but don't pay), no social housing, reduced social care, bad jobs and terrible schools. On the other hand the elite (me) have private healthcare (virtually unheard of when I was a kid) million pound houses, teslas etc etc.

The referendum was a response to the disaster of 2011->14 in Greece culminating with the UK's veto being ignored - I don't think that the UK gov expected to end up running a referendum but it was like political gravity once that happened and they were dragged into it. This opened up the truth of the national divide that has opened up and the schism between the haves and the don't haves.

All of this is remarkably similar to the Trumpian schism in the USA, but the difference is that Johnson is not Trump. His key sin (of the week) is that he hosted a Christmas quiz on Zoom last year, apparently having had too much booze. And Johnson will be gone soon and adult supervision of the Tory party will resume, probably in opposition. I don't see any other post referendum figure looming behind Johnson to take the mantle of populism and if Johnson was ever going to do that then surely his moment has passed. In any case whenever he's been pushed to make a policy choice it's generally been quite unpopular and fundamentally progressive - for example sticking 1% on tax to pay for more health care.

So - if the UK political establishment can get it's act together there is a chance to move forward, we are not faced with the horror of Trump 2024. If it doesn't then the UK will drift downwards like a leaf on the wind and eventually there will be another crisis. This will come because there is a rarely discussed dynamic of the UK's integration with the EU which is that the UK ran a gigantic trade deficit with the EU (Germany in particular) due to the Euro's devaluation vs. the DM. Johnson has not fixed this and in fact has made it worse because of not putting tariffs on EU imports. He can't because of the pandemic and the failure of the UK (and global) logistic infrastructure, but one of the things that's coming is the moment that the UK government decides that it either will do this, or has to do this. The has to may come with a balance of payments crisis and a Turkish Lira style run on Sterling, so I see how the balance of trade is sorted as the litmus test for the future of the UK. If the government gets it right I see the UK developing as a Singapore on Thames, if it gets it wrong then I think not so much.

Anyway, I will be nearly dead by then along with the rest of the Blairite scum who have got us to here and are now so angry on Twitter about what they think they didn't do.

You think his drinking on zoom is his most egregious behaviour? Are you politically uneducated?

That's what all the current hoohah is about, and it's cooked up by the media.

Maybe there's not much else going on in the world where some of the blame can not be directed straight back at the media?

I wonder what's going on in Afghanistan right now, for instance, and is it worse than an illicit Chritmas party or having someone else pay for your wallpaper? Given the amount of coverage by the BBC, obviously not.

I think that what's happening in Afghanistan now is somewhat the fault of British governments since Blair, but also reveals the limits of British power. The decision to pull out was Biden's, the UK was a passenger.

Wait. Wasn’t the decision to pull out the previous president’s?

This is interesting.

It happened on Biden's watch, so people will remember Biden as owning it.

But yes, Trump was the one who decided to pull the plug.

That said, Biden didn't really have to go along with whatever Trump had started, so it was his choice too.

I expect Trumpers to claim credit for the withdrawal, and to simultaneously blame Biden for the defeat, often in the same paragraph. (It's not cognitive dissonance if you know it's all bullshit.) And Democrats will play with a variety of unconvincing narratives, including "Trump tied my hands".

But ultimately, most people are going to view the withdrawal as having been more-or-less necessary, and will recognize the blame game for what it is.

> I wonder what's going on in Afghanistan right now, for instance, and is it worse than an illicit Chritmas party or having someone else pay for your wallpaper? Given the amount of coverage by the BBC, obviously not.

News is an entertainment product - the main thing that determines what dominates the agenda is what people find interesting and gets eyeballs, not some abstract measure of "worthiness".

And in addition, it is perfectly OK for the national news of a country to focus on issues of importance to that country (such as matters that relate to the honesty and integrity of the prime minister) rather than Indian national health policies or whatever the worthies think is of most importance.

Not that it is even worthies making this comparison of course - more like pathetic attempts to distract.

Pathetic attempts to distract - yes I think you hit the nail squarely on the head there.

There are two articles about Afghanistan on the BBC front page right now, and more can be found by following links into categories Afghanistan or Taliban; I found 20 articles in the last 5 days. So I wouldn't say they're exactly ignoring it.

No there isn't and I think you understand my point perfectly.

Talk of political education makes me nervous, perhaps because I have an education.

This is an excellent analysis, thank you.

Public services in the UK are crumbling not because the 'ruling classes' devoted their attention to Brussels, but because of decades of neo-liberal policy and then punitive austerity.

As ever, it is the rich making sure that they get even richer, at the expense of the poor.

As for Singapore-on-Thames, that really is a dystopian nightmare, given the authoritarian nature of the Singaporean government.

>ruling classes' devoted their attention to Brussels

You are right. I expressed what I think poorly.

My belief is that the ability to blame Brussels and focus attention away from the realities of the UK meant that many people could avoid thinking about the demolition of local services and the emiseration of their fellows and instead focus on "the big picture".

There isn't another game for our politicians & public services to play now.

Also agree on the nature of Singapore.

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