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Comment by protomyth | Hacker News Reader

Or come to North Dakota where in 1936 we recorded our highest (121°F in Steele on July 6) and lowest (-60°F in Parshall on February 15) temperatures.

I once had a grant that had data about the summer high and winter low effects on car maintenance of low income families. Its amazing what such a wide range of temps will do to the employment of rural low income families.

Last year's -35°F day before wind chill (which sent it down to truly horrific) was a pure pain in the butt.

https://www.weather.gov/bis/climate_EXT

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It's hard to imagine how cold those temperatures are. When they predicted record cold in Chicago in 2019 I scoffed at weakling Americans and how my rugged British constitution would protect me. All the bravado evaporated quickly when I had to step outside for a hospital appointment that day. IT WAS COLD. REALLY COLD.

"In the Chicago area, temperatures plummeted as low as −23 °F (−31 °C) at O'Hare International Airport on January 30, with a windchill of −52 °F (−47 °C)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January%E2%80%93February_2019_...

I was in jail at the time and shortly after I met a guy in physical therapy who's fingers were all black. I asked him what happened. He said he had a dope (heroin) habit and went out that day trying to find a dealer. He was outside in that temperature for _8 hours_. Of course, he never found a dealer. He went home and took a hot shower and realized something was wrong. The day after I met him they sawed off all his fingers.

Now I must know how you came to travel from the UK to the US only to end up in jail. Did you fail to clap when the plane landed?

-This habit puzzles me no end; I'd be much more prone to expressing emotion in the case of the pilot NOT nailing the landing...

Yes, negative 23 Fahrenheit is very, very cold.

You could probably track extreme temps by how many new car batteries are bought. At those low of temps the batteri s freeze because they're not fully charged and/or their cars alternator is dying and only good enough to maintain maybe half a charge.

I'm in northeastern Ontario (usually see roughly -35 degC to 35 degC in a year).

I've been super impressed by the battery in my car. 7 years old and left to die from lack of use (second car plus pandemic). I've boosted it back to life probably half a dozen times now, and it keeps going.

We've all got bets going about when it leaves me stranded. There's no way it's very healthy, and there's no way my alternator hasn't been close to catching fire at some point.

But if I replace them now I'm going to be in the same position before long. Hardly seems like the time.

Wait, isn't 'before long' potentially 7 more years with a fresh battery? This kind of brinkmanship makes me nervous enough to price out capacitor jumpstarters.

>I once had a grant that had data about the summer high and winter low effects on car maintenance of low income families.

I'd bet a lot of money that it kneecaps them less than road salt combined with vehicle inspections.

You can afford a lot of batteries (and other stuff) when the state isn't trying to screw you over a rusty wheel arch.

I don't know, North Dakota really doesn't do vehicle inspections. Road salt is becoming less of an issue given the newer used cars and some changes by DOT.

Yearly fees (e.g. registration) are always a big issue for low income people. That is why I oppose a mileage tax on electric vehicles. Paying at the charger is much fairer for low income people and not a once a year, intrusive mileage fee.

Eh. I live in Florida, don't own a coat yet. I don't understand what "-60°F" means.

Most of the rest of the world has no idea what -60°F means either

It's -51.1̅°C, for anyone wondering.

How do we know that the employment is directly related to temperatures? What sort of relationship is it?

Negative, for sure. Cars don't start, accidents and illnesses are more common, carbon monoxide poisoning increases, heart attacks are more frequent with stress and snow shoveling. Throw in SAD and vitamin d deficiency - cold places throw a lot of shit at people.

My father used to cross country ski to work on the worst winter days. Sometimes he’d go on a drift right over stuck cars. Unexcused absences just weren’t a thing back then.

People wait for the major river separating Minnesota and Wisconsin to freeze up so they can drive across the frozen surface to their respective jobs and save 15 minutes on the commute via the bridges. It's a popular thing to do especially for Andersen Windows workers.

I feel that’s much less common now that the new bridge is in place; the old Stillwater bridge would often be broken or jammed up with traffic.

FWIW it's the Mississippi, but your description is probably more valuable given your point. (Though I think it's wild that people drive across the Mississippi, and I grew up just southeast of there in Rochester!)

Actually it sounds like he's referring to the St. Croix River. Andersen Windows is/was located in/near Stillwater.

Oh hey, I'd clean forgotten about that one! Thanks for pointing that out!

It mostly had to do with cars needing more maintenance, low income folks buying used cars, not having backup transportation (i.e. one car per family) when problems arise, and not having the funds to fix them.

Automobile use in the rust belt is so ridiculously wasteful, it no doubt generates heaps of jobs in the process.

I used to work as a mechanic in IL back in the day. It became normal for myself and my gearhead buddies to keep winter beaters and leave the nicer cars/motorcycles parked until the roads stopped getting salted and rain could wash it all away for summer. I'd go through winter beaters like they were shoes, whole used cars!

The amount of time and money I used to spend on automotive expenses back there is batshit crazy compared to what I spend in CA.

And the yearly rebuilding of all the roads trashed by the salt+plows. I wonder if it's less of an issue now with climate change.

>I wonder if it's less of an issue now with climate change

It's roughly as bad, some years are worse than others. Climate change hasn't made winter better.

If you live in California, climate change has made winters in the midwest _appear_ more mild.

How so? All I can figure is winter is supposed to be cold and snowy so California only hears about the extremes like a 60F day in January

Because Californians, being more liberal than average, are more likely to buy into the climate change narrative. Confirmation bias does the rest.

But anyone actually "buying into the climate change narrative" knows that the result isn't warmer winters.

By my teens it was already apparent that IL winters were becoming less snowy, but it was still a slushy+salty mess on the roads.

I still have contact with friends back home and the impression our convos leaves me with is that they're out riding mountain bikes in the winter months my childhood would have had me sledding in a snowsuit.

But maybe it's just irregular and there's lots of icy/slushy road days. I admit I don't pay attention to the weather forecasts back home, it's just passing conversations with old friends combined with what seemed like a trajectory towards increasingly mild winters before I left the state.

Illinois road construction tends to be optimized for repeat business and just barely avoiding the ire of local news.

That sounds like some impressive engineering.

1) Cars have had baked-on finish for 20+ years and generally don't rust through anymore, even with the ice melt put on roads in Minnesota;

2) Roads in Minnesota are not destroyed by salt + plows. Roads are destroyed by frost heave and by heavy trucks traveling on them as the ground freeze gradually melts in the spring. Locales in Minnesota have "road restrictions" in the spring to try to minimize the latter effect - that is, dump trucks/semis are limited to about 50% capacity per axle to try to minimize the damage done to the roads they drive over.

>Cars have had baked-on finish for 20+ years and generally don't rust through anymore, even with the ice melt put on roads in Minnesota;

It's better than it used to be but anything in the same plane as the tire rotates is still doesn't last. Rust also starts at the holes in panels where plastic trims attach and it's not uncommon to find 5-10yo vehicles that are missing large chunks of the rocker panels or areas around the rear perimeter under the bumper cover. Anything that routinely sees a gravel road will be destroyed in half the time.

> 1) Cars have had baked-on finish for 20+ years and generally don't rust through anymore, even with the ice melt put on roads in Minnesota;

If only the primary corrosion problem on automobiles were the painted unibody, which still is only a minor scratch or collision-repair away from devolving into the same rotting trash.

Especially with newer vehicles employing more aluminum parts, often fastened using steel fasteners if not to steel surfaces, you get plenty of galvanic corrosion at these critical junctions. The dissimilar metals exposed to saltwater electrolyte is basically a battery. And this is occurring out of sight unless you get under and wrench on your own vehicles, where there's substantially more exposure to the road salts.

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