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Comment by zardo | Hacker News Reader

If you have to be at the ready to take over from the car trying to kill you at all times, wouldn't you rather just drive?

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The accident happened so fast. How would anybody be able to take over fast enough if your hands aren't hovering directly next to the wheel?

It does seem like I'd have to maintain the same level of alertness and attention as when driving, in order to have the continuity of awareness needed to react. Including having my hands on the wheel.

You'd have to be way more alert, a well maintained car is rather predictable and won't throw itself around like that

You have to keep your hands on the wheel, but even then it's not really a motor control issue, the problem is attention and surprise.

I should know this, but don’t… when the vehicle is in computer driving mode with your human hand on the wheel, does the wheel still turn?

I assume for mechanical and practical reasons it does, but I don’t know to what degree it will “fight you”. How much pressure is needed to override the system? If I’m holding it and refuse to let the wheel turn, I assume it gives up and computer mode turns off? But there has to be some degree of resistance it’ll overcome right?

I think it varies but this from today shows it aggressively fighting the driver: https://twitter.com/fly4dat/status/1469410498928156683?s=20

Yea, that’s kind of what I thought it would be like. Hard to tell how much of that is fighting, and how much is “tactile wiggle alert” where it’s not steering that input but is wiggling.

They can wiggle alert safely if it’s full electronic steering and not connected to a tie rod. IDK if that is the case, typically sucks for feeling the road.

That’s correct. The wheel is still moving, and you are required to minimally tension it. Stronger tension will disengage the AP.

That depends on the probability (say, per mile) that you’ll need to take over.

A lower probability is even worse psychologically imho.

That also depends on how low.

It's high enough that the people building it say it's not safe to take your hands off the wheel or your eyes off the road.

I guarantee reaction time to self driving is way worse than an active driver in the same situation.

Objectively only If you perform statistically better than the automatic system

So far so good. I suppose there are a few acute medical situations that might cause me to fuck up driving on par with what FSD can manage to do.

The measurement is per hr or 1000 hrs of driving, I would think

Not per situation where you think you would have done better ignoring the ones where the computer would have done objectively better

Sure. So far I’ve driven maybe 500k kilometers and I’m doing pretty okay so far. Twice a deer at low speed and that’s about it.

Every time when my car issues AEB, I’m ahead of it mentally and AEB only interferes with what I want to do. But I’ve driven race cars on Nordschleife so I guess I’m an outlier here.

What situation is the computer going to do objectively better? I don't really care to swap any number of survivable accidents for one situation like that.

Most accidents are even due to human error (even if they are reported as such) - it's self-driving propaganda fodder.

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/620808/

Which you almost certainly do today.

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