Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)
cntraveler.com
cntraveler.com
> A visit to Mount Athos also involves literal time travel. The monasteries there still go by Byzantine time, in which the day begins at sunset, not midnight, so the time zone changes literally every day. Visitors may have to set their watches back by as much as seven hours as they cross the border. And don't forget to change the date as well. Mount Athos never adopted the new-fangled 16th-century Gregorian calendar; they still use the Julian calendar of the Roman Empire, which lags 13 days behind. It's almost two weeks ago there!
For anyone wanting to know a bit more about why this is, here's some additional details:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sj868IzNrk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction
Technically, one might also argue something weird like, "If I can see sunlight, it's still daytime" in which case a different phenomina would come into play:
https://www.atoptics.co.uk/highsky/zod1.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiacal_light
What this all comes down to is, roughly speaking, even after the sun has technically set, there's still a bit of leeway before we no longer see the sun/sunlight due additional factors.
There are some weird time zones out there.
I've heard a first hand story about a monk there who takes nice photos of animals. He just goes for walks and says, for example, "Snake, come here let me take your photo!" So the snake swims across the lake for a good close up.
You can get lots of great photos that way.
How long it stayed there, or whether (given that it was originly a N.American, thus 60hz/NTSC edition, though perhaps it could detect and switch to PAL operation) it was ever even plugged in, I never found out.
I'm not even sure the monk who I gave the system to (staying in the US for study) had any particular plan for it, though he did know his way around the machine just well enough to run tetris and wordperfect.
Russian Orthodox Church also still follows the Julian calendar. Majority of Orthodox countries switched to Gregorian only in the 20th century.
Of course it's not "two weeks ago there", it's just that the date is different: it's as if you tried to use a different calendar system altogether — it's fine, you just need to convert back and forth. FWIW, a bunch of churches (Russian, Serbian, Romanian Orthodox churches) still respect the Julian calendar too, and other than Christmas falling on January 7th in the Gregorian calendar (and Easter calculations using different start points), none of it is particularly notable. Gregorian calendar is not more "correct," it's just better aligned with astronomical events.
Astronomers also take middle of the day as the start of the day (look up Julian Days), because noon (Sun at the apex) is what we can actually observe and measure, so that's not something outrageous either.
Basically, it's "scandalous" type of reporting on different conventions which obviously have no practical matter.
The Oktoberfest is named for the marriage of Crown Prince Ludwig and Princess Therese in October 1810 and happened in October, until in 1872 it was decided to move the begin a couple weeks earlier, because in Munich the October weather is often very cold and rain-plagued.
Historically the event had a focus on horse racing (and did have a race until 1960). I've heard one of the reasons to move it back was also that the meadows were better for racing in when dry and more likely to be so in September.
Unfortunately, people do take it seriously, so it's also fine to point it out for what it is.
Even if people were tracking dates, adjusting for a couple of days every 200 years wouldn't be that hard: nobody would remember the good old times when we did the harvest on September 22nd in 1234, and now we do them on September 20th in 1434.
Finally, matching up with astronomical events would sometimes put sidereal year (and day) at the forefront: a day that's ~4 minutes shorter than the solar day making the tropical year Gregorian calendar is based on. Things get murky quite quickly once you start going down that path of what "correct" really is.
Note that in the Gregorian calendar, Spring equinox in 2021 and 2022 fell or falls on March 20th. It's only pretty good when averaged out over a 400-year cycle.
Basically, all of these calendar systems are attempts to "square the circle": find something resembling the least common multiple of non-integer values (solar day length and tropical year length), and then try to mix in a bunch of events observed in a different coordinate system (to overly simplify it, all the night stuff is "sidereal").
So we get back to what is really "useful"?
If you don't care about knowing how many days ago, or on what date in the proleptic calendar of your choice something happened in the past just from the date inscribed on it (eg. imagine a letter dated January 5th, 1605), you would certainly be fine with just dropping 10-13 days somewhere along the way. I can, however, understand when someone thinks it's easier to be off from astronomical events for a few weeks to avoid all that administrative trouble, for instance. However, the biggest practical problem today would be that everyone else has written those 10-13 days off, so it's probably easiest to switch too, especially in the global world we've got today.
But there is nothing intrinsically better in the Gregorian calendar that makes it win on all counts. It's just another agreed-upon approximation.
In short: How long it takes to cook an egg doesn't change because someone inserted a leap second.
Of course, when people try to do the obvious thing, and measure time durations using a wall clock, that's when the fun begins. In that world, "a day from now" is not a consistent number of seconds in the future, due to the aforementioned leap seconds, daylight savings time, and, potentially, time zone shifts if the person doing the measuring is traveling, or is (or, perhaps, was) in a particularly "interesting" jurisdiction.
Earth's rotation is — arguably — better measured against the stars, so a sidereal day is more "correct", yet it would not map to our daily routine at all.
So I believe the question is not what is more "correct" (we've long established that we are dealing with approximations at best, Julian calendar included: it already had leap years), but what is more useful? And that's what has driven adoption of the Gregorian calendar in most of the world, but I am fine if somewhere it's more useful not to have to worry about did some days just disappear at some point in the past.
You also seem to be overstating the importance of exact dates when it comes to agriculture: my experience is that +-13 days does not make a practical difference, especially if it slowly accumulates (it's not like you would suddenly have to do the harvest 13 days later from one year to the next — you actuslly had to do it 10-13 days "early" once the calendar was switched, and it didn't make a difference even then).
If human civilization continued using the Julian calendar, we wouldn't have been any worse off: nothing points at it that we would have been. I am not saying that Gregorian calendar is "worse" at all (though those born on Feb 29 might beg to disagree when they go 8 years between birthdays 2096-2104 :)), just that where it's better does not matter much.
It's been so long ago, I don't remember too many details, but someone else may have a better memory and pipe up.
More info:
They're also on the Julian calendar, giving rise to their old tourism slogan "13 months of sunshine".
I used to live in a communal religious house. Ananda Marga Yoga Society.
Vegetarian kitchen. Meditation room. Some rules. Chill people.
It was nice.
USA culture seems committed to keeping you busy, anxious and offbalance.
I've been warned by moderators on here for being "too preachy" before, so I will leave it at that, but if you wish to talk more about it in a different venue, let me know. Cheers.
How much of that desire has survived the lockdowns?
I think the rigors of monastic life are also off putting to someone just wanting to hang out.
anway, if there is a formula for secular monasticism I would like to see it. In my view, without the orders and vows there is nothing keeping people from leaving - kinda like how communes sort of evapoeate after a while.
Back to secular monasticism: the closest we have are militaries (which have been substitute homes and families for a certain kind of person ever since the invention of standing armies) and the prison system. I wonder if UBI, even a UBI of the very low kind, might end up with something like secular monasticism emerging. Communities with absolute minimalism in terms of individual rooms and all remaining resources (rent and chore hours commitment) put in shared amenities. So many ways to make a setup like that a catastrophic failure, but there might be winning patterns
I have always been fascinated with the thought of a post-society world, where technology still lingers but can only be wielded by few, and perhaps truly understood by none. All previous knowledge gone, people would have to tinker, poke and problem solve their way to understanding how these arcane artifacts and mysterious facilities.
I think it interests me because the idea of idle curiosity and discovery in a vacuum seems wholesome and rewarding. No roles to fill, no bills to pay, and all your capabilities are wrought from your own efforts not bestowed upon you by the exchange of money (smartphones, cars, etc).
The only chance to be "free" would be to live in a very remote area, alone. That's a tough life but at least you don't have any answer to anyone.
I would imagine part of enjoyment of Monastic life is surrendering to those in charge of the Monastery.
Good point about monastic life, it is always idealized but as with most things in the cosmos reality deviates.
Unless you are a hermit and live in solitude (which is not the case on Athos) you still have to answer to the community members and obey the community rules which very are often made to favour specific members of the community.
That's the route Daniel Shellabarger [aka Daniel Suelo] took[1]. He quit his job and went to live life as a hermit/hobo in the Am-Southwest. It's not an easy life --most people would not take that deal, but maybe for him it is. It's very ad-hoc and with very little regimen.
[1]https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/03/homeles...
It's also still a society, a small one at least, a group life. It is likely to impose on you much more than society in general, though in different ways. If you prefer solitude, you may be looking to become a hermit, rather than a monk.
In a secular context: You might care about work, jobs, careers, and riches, is not for their own sake, but because the riches can support you in a life of study. With a million or two from tech you can buy a small house somewhere quiet and study there all you like.
The first half of this book is a recollection of life as a monk on Mt Athos (the second half is a collection of the monk's teachings as an elder): Wounded by Love: The Life and Wisdom of Saint Porphyrios.
Another good book is The Gurus, The Young Man, and Elder Paisios by Dionysios Farasiotis. This one has a lot more detail about life on Mt Athos. Also, it's important to note that Elder Paisios has been venerated and is now Saint Paisios.
Check out "Into Great Silence" for a film about life in the Grand Chartreuse, the motherhouse of the Carthusian order. I recall reading some years ago that it is one of the few (only?) orders in the Catholic Church that has never needed reform. Carthusians only talk to each other once a week I believe -- interesting monastic order.
There is also a relevant classic work on the Jesus Prayer so used by the East: The Way of a Pilgrim. It's about a man who is determined to find out how to pray without ceasing. He becomes a solitary mystic is how I would describe it.
The main reason for being a monk is to crucify one's ego each day in obedience to one's spiritual father and more importantly, to God. "I want to monk my own way" completely undermines the whole way of life of a monk.
There's some amount of commercial utility to chickens (and their eggs) and vegetables, so you might be able to make your sponsorship go farther.
If this is something you are interested in, many of the larger monasteries also function as retreat centers and welcome visitors. There's one about 45 minutes from me [0] that I have visited a few times and stayed for two nights once as part of the marriage preparation courses my wife and I did before getting married. You can have a chance to get a feel for what life is like for the brethren, even for only a few days.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=15779940...
The Greek Constitution begins with “In the name of the Holy and Consubstantial and Indivisible Trinity.”
If the EU is going to take counties as they are … this is how Greece is - a state with a very influential established church.
If not, where do you draw the line? Is a private villa acceptable? A private golf course? A hill? A small island?
Can I decide who enters my 220 square meters apartment?
My question is: where do you draw the line?
Can someone own a 300 sq meters house? A castle? A golf course? A small island?
I also just don't like the church, so there's double the hate at a super rich church.
The two monks I have spoken with are real sweethearts, but they sound really bored and idle to me. They do love speaking with my female coworker though which is, eh, kinda funny. :p
Would you be equally upset at a Buddhist convent only allowing Buddhist women as guests?
Becoming a priest is not something you do for your own good, it's not a privilege, it's a calling. Priests exist for the good of society, not for priests themselves, you are viewing things backwards.
Gender segregated monasteries have existed since foreveer. Mt Athos is like one giant monastery in that sense. For religious people there is a base for gender segregation.
> Not everyone could revel in wonders of Mount Fuji’s lava caves. Until 1868, women were banned from climbing higher than the middle zone of the mountain, ascetics worrying that they would distract men from their religious duties and other traditional taboos.
Btw, there's a great documentary about Mt. Athos that I think really expresses the ehtos of the place: https://youtu.be/U5pwfLRI-R8
I also believe you have to follow the Greek Orthodox religion to be able to visit - they might make some rare exceptions. (might be wrong)
You need a permit (effectively, a visa) to enter the peninsula, and there is a daily quota. About a tenth of available permits can be issued to non-Orthodox visitors. They don't single out the Greek church from other Orthodox churches (AFAIK).
[I researched the entry requirements a couple of years ago out of curiosity, but never tried to actually visit. Something may have changed in the meantime, but somehow I doubt it :)]
Also, I'm reading a book about Mt Athos now, it was mentioned that a tourist was on the island. That must have taken place ~100 years ago, mind you.
"One of the traditions is that the Virgin Mary was blown off course when she was trying to sail to Cyprus and landed on Mount Athos. And she liked it so much that she prayed to her son that she should be given it as her own and he agreed," says Speake. "It's still called 'the garden of the mother of God', dedicated to her glory, and she alone represents her sex on Mount Athos."
This applies to both humans and domestic animals, except for cats.
"There are a lot of cats around and it's probably a quite a good thing that there are because they are good mousers. They turn a blind eye, as it were, to the fact that there are female cats," says Speake.
Like so many rules, it seems to be enforced strictly, except when inconvenient.
Sheep are very useful, but present more chances for certain behaviours that monks want to prevent.
Hens are likewise allowed, AFAIK.
...cats are involved. ;-)
Also, the many female saints and especially the Theotokos (Mary) are prayed to often and are in an important sense present on the peninsula.
There's a great book "The Way of the Pilgrim" that explores a man's journey to discover what 'prayer without ceasing' means and how it could be possible.
There's also a monastery that was called 'the unsleeping ones' where they divided the hours of the day into shifts and had monastics in prayers throughout the day and night continuously.
There's more on Mount Athos on a website devoted to Fermor: [2]
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/09/books/review/patrick-leig... (Archived: https://archive.ph/uAM3B )
[2] https://patrickleighfermor.org/2011/04/30/mount-athos-a-visi...
Orphans who grow up in such places must have gotten some very strange perspective about the world.
Hamatoura appears to be of similar style of build, high up on a cliff....or rather in a cliff!
> The peninsula was raided by Catalan mercenaries in the 14th century in the so-called Catalan vengeance due to which the entry of people of Catalan origin was prohibited until 2005.
It seems Catalans are old troublemakers
What we consider attractive (boobs, ass etc) comes from society. There are tribes where women go around naked with no issue. Back in the Victorian era they used to go ga-ga over ankles.
So it'd be interesting exposing* a man like that, whose essentially a blank slate, to a nude woman and seeing what he finds attractive.
*no pun intended!
I seriously doubt it. The main things that men find attractive are genetically programmed.
It's true that secondary things come from society (ankles as you say, beauty marks, long necks (hence the need for neck rings), etc), but that doesn't mean that a blank slate man would find long necks and breasts equally attractive.