Alternatively you can work in Go where braindead simplicity is the mandated norm.
I'm not saying FP is bad, it is actually really powerful when it is in the hands of those who understand when and how to use it. The problem with the attitude that you demonstrate in your reply is also not limited to FP: in the era of OOO, there were those that spread the evangelism of design patterns to all places regardless if it made any sense; before that in the 90's there was a group of programmers that liked to generate code until no colleague understood anymore what was happening. And when you tried to tell them that abstractions don't come for free, but with a cost because they make code harder to understand, the answer for the last 25 years has always be the same, although rarely said straight: that it was only hard for -you- to understand, and not for the enlightened master himself.
I have seen more projects fail because of too much unneeded abstraction than by all other causes together. I even have seen companies go almost bankrupt because of projects engineered by lone wolfs where nobody understood the abstractions anymore except for the designer himself, and at some point he himself not really anymore either.
And the problem is that this mindset continues to be cultivated by CS books and conferences. Few people want to read a book that tells them that the secret of being productive as a team depends on mostly the culture in the team and the simplicity of the code, and not on the latest hyped framework, language or paradigm.
Agreed, and what did we get? dogmatic decrying of how OOP is completely useless and objectively bad, not too dissimilar from some of the comments on FP and Scala on here.
And just who were the ones pushing this? The people peddling FP.
The people in this thread are not pushing anything. They're just sharing their experiences with Scala and how unproductive it is to deal with FP zealots.
Ah! Just write a quine and be done with it!
> I have seen more projects fail because of too much unneeded abstraction than by all other causes together. I even have seen companies go almost bankrupt because of projects engineered by lone wolfs where nobody understood the abstractions anymore except for the designer himself, and at some point he himself not really anymore either.
"cake pattern" on one side and scalatest on the other.
As for
> I’m constantly surprised to see this type anti-intellectualism.
You hardly need any Category Theory to theory to understand type theory or mostly important Scala's type system. This the exact knowledge and allows you use it effectively. Yeah, the way he puts it makes those who like to understand the theory behind everything look bad.
I know, and have been told, to have written hard to read code. In my case it's usually vectorized code in numpy or a C or cython extension for really hot code. But I always have a good reason, usually performance when it matters.
It's usually said that premature optimization is the root of all evil, but it's nothing compared against premature abstraction. Optimization at least is local in its nature while abstraction tends to expand all over a code base, and when the assumptions made for the abstraction no longer hold people is still forced to keep dancing for a music that no longer plays.
"Educate yourself" assumes that your interests are everyone's interests but this is a vast field and not everyone has interest nor time to learn about category theory. Most probably your coworkers are quite intelligent. If they are not interested in your idea it may be that it's not appropriate or maybe not correctly framed, or not mature.
I learnt the basics of FP a long time ago and understood the data-centric view of computation, the benefits of immutability etc - those things actually do help me write better code. The advanced FP, not so much. The nightmarish encoding of advanced FP shoe-horned into a language not built to support it that compiles into Java definitely not built to support it actively hurts. There are so many dirty macro shenanigans and hacks in the guts of the FP-purist libraries to force the language to implement things it just isn't particularly well suited to implement, which makes reading or debugging library code a nightmare. Like if you want Haskell, just use Haskell FFS and let us code reasonable Scala in peace.
There are so many parts of math that are much more useful in various fields - basic optimization in solving sudoku puzzles[1], linear programming in Z3, gradient descent in ML, calculus & vectors in graphics programming etc.
Most computer science graduates are well schooled in algorithms, complexity, linear algebra etc. However, the vast majority of their time commercially will not be spent implementing some core algorithm, but instead gluing systems together and consuming/writing APIs. Any mathematics that helps them better accomplish this would be good to add to their toolbox.
Category theory gives you the precise language to talk about such stuff and helps to communicate and talk about more complex concepts and that's always a plus.
1. How easy it is for an average programmer to understand the code.
2. How understandable the code actually is if the reader is fluent with that prior knowledge.
If one finds the latter is much better than code written in conventional techniques, but people are scared off by the former, it can get pretty frustrating, and "people are stupid" may be a conclusion drawn.
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But my experience is that those techniques do not yield better code.
And "Educate yourself" made me barf.
I hate how “best tool for the job” really just means “what we can have a large hiring pool of people who’ve only ever learned one programming style and possibly only one language of” or “for legacy reasons this is the only choice”.
Yes I’m familiar with reality, I just hate it.
- Engineers had written higher abstractions seemingly just because they could. When I audited how internal libraries were used across our services, calling applications weren't making use of the advanced abstractions. I'm talking about things like using Cats to abstract across AWS S3 error handling. Cool, except that it wasn't needed because we never actually encountered the exotic compositions of failures anticipated by the libraries.
- The abstractions written for our own business logic were worse than abstracting over S3. They were premature. Our business logic had to change frequently because the end user experience was still evolving rapidly. Changes that violated previous assumptions and their corresponding abstractions took longer than they should have and/or led to very awkward code.
- At least at the time, tooling had more problems with the "advanced" code. The IntelliJ IDEA Scala plugin could not yet show how implicits were used. It couldn't find senders sending to an Actor the way it can easily find plain callers of a function. You would need to manually force a "clean" in certain modules before code changes would compile as expected. IDEs would also fail to flag code that couldn't compile, and incorrectly flag code that would compile, at a higher rate compared to plainer Scala.
I'm still glad that I have access to Cats, Akka, and other advanced parts of the Scala ecosystem. They're still used in a few places where their value is greater than their cost. Even in the plain code, I'm still very glad I have pattern matching, immutability-by-default, rich collections, map, flatMap, filter, fold, scan, find, etc. I have no plans to transition our company off Scala internally. If I were starting a greenfield project with myself as the sole developer, I'd probably be using Scala for that too. But I prefer to write a bunch of simple repetitive code first, then develop abstractions after it's clear what the commonalities are.
There are plenty of companies where everyone has a very mature understanding of monads and where new joiners are coached to reach that level of understanding.
And there are plenty of places that aren't using source control, CI and unit tests.
In other words, do you solve problems that actually require category theory or are you just navel gazing?
You don't need more than highschool maths to understand the category theory behind common typeclasses.
Instead of bringing the juniors up, we drag the more experienced guys down to their level.
The result is really shit basic code everywhere. or you end up using a language like go where there's basically only for, if and arrays and writing code in it is miserable and tedious.