Millennials Killed the Mayonnaise Industry (2018) | Hacker News Reader

Millennials Killed the Mayonnaise Industry (2018)

phillymag.com

17 points_6mdd60 comments

I read this whole shitty article and nowhere is there a convincing argument that mayonnaise consumption is even down. So I decided to double check the work of the journalist (quite necessary in this age) and discovered it up year over year.

The author of this piece just lied to us all.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/280777/us-households-usa...

It is exceedingly apparent from the article's tone and prose that it's satire.

I took a quick look and wouldn't say it's exceedingly apparent.

Maybe I shouldn't press the point too hard, but the Millenials are Killing X[1] snowclone was already popular by 2016. That plus phrases like "Good ol' Mayo is the Taylor Swift of condiments", "some kind of deviant", etc. are a pretty big giveaway, at least IMO.

[1]: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/millennials-are-killing

I got bored a few paragraphs in and nothing in that made me even suspect that it may be satire. The prose is the "poor imitation of the New Yorker" style that is very common in long boring and entirely serious articles.

This is behind a paywall. Do you have a summary or a free link?

https://archive.md/roB5n

Just use "reader" mode and you'll be good

In general, I don't even consider the stuff sold in store mayonnaise - if ever there was a need for what you can call stuff. You can make your own (real) mayo pretty easily, an egg yolk, some mustard and vegetable oil, I like to add a few drops of lemon or vinegar. Get ready to have your mind blown by much better taste and an inviting yellow color rather than the crap that's mass produced. It's also a good way to realize how much oil is in mayo and to wonder how your 90lb grandma was able to whisk for hours but your arm hurts after a 25 seconds...

If you want to see a scientific approach to making good mayo, I recommend this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjw2AD8VSfo

The author does shill out for a VPN company, but his approach to cooking and the science behind the lecithin emulsifier that makes mayonnaise work is extremely interesting!

> The author does shill out for a VPN company

That's a weird way of saying "trying to make a living"

Finding new and creative ways to stick advertisements in front of people in ways that they can't easily avoid is indeed a way that some people try to make a living.

It just happens to be a way of making a living of which many people, on HN and off, have a negative opinion.

There have been plenty of poorly regarded professions throughout history that still drew people because they were paid, despite the negative publicity. Tax collectors in Ancient Rome were also just trying to make a living.

> Finding new and creative ways to stick advertisements in front of people in ways that they can't easily avoid is indeed a way that some people try to make a living.

In other words “Pretty much all media, everywhere”

Strong disagree. Almost all music (distinct from "music platforms") does not contain any advertising. Many movies contain product placements, but many more do not. TV shows frequently have ads embedded, but platforms like HBO do not show ads. Almost all paintings, sculptures, or other art media do not contain ads, excepting those created specifically for the advertising industry.

Considering the totality of media created by humanity to date, I would suspect that advertising is present in a small minority.

Music - concert shirts, terrestrial radio. Even streaming paid streaming services slip in sponsorship mentions. HBO - Owned by AT&T and WarnerMedia, literally WM has $8B in rev much from their platforms and brands that do sell advertising. Paintings and sculpture - you think museums aren’t an advertisement in of themselves? You don’t think cities and communities don’t subsidize those for cultural reasons do you? It’s a draw.

But sure, some “art” is not advertisement saturated, but make no mistake—the organizations that distribute it or provide access to it..are filthy with it.

IMO calling museums advertisements for a city/community is a stretch of the definition for the purpose of this discussion- like yeah, it could technically be considered that way, but it's so broad that it sort of renders the whole point moot.

> the organizations that distribute it or provide access to it..are filthy with it.

I think your point there is the crux of the whole thing for me. I see a big distinction between a piece of media that has an advertisement literally embedded within it by the creator and presented as part of the finished whole (example, a podcast where they shill some service or other) versus an ad-free piece of media where some other third party distributor shows advertisements alongside the media.

The podcast in question further up the thread falls into the first bucket, while, for example, a hard news piece by a journalist that is then displayed on a website with banner ads is quantitatively different. In the latter, the piece of media exists, and can be experienced in its totality with all ads taken away, while in the podcast example, the ads are inextricable from the whole without altering the work itself.

I think we are just defining “media” differently. Yours is not wrong…art, music, etc…it’s certainly media…as the plural of “medium”.

I’m defining media more as the distributor or publisher of created works. I’d argue that short of a direct pay for content model, that most publishers/distributors are using advertising in some form as either their for profit business model, or to supplement and offset the publishing costs.

I absolutely support Alex trying to make a living - I bought his cookbook! I know he has a Patreon and branded gear. I really hope he gets advertising deals from companies whose products he uses to share things he genuinely believes in.

But no one really believes in scammy Youtube-advertising VPNs...right?

I don't fault Alex for shilling the same high-value ads that every other successful Youtuber does. The guy is quite dedicated to making relatively difficult or obscure techniques accessible to home cook enthusiasts, and really puts a lot of work into churning out high quality content. If continuing to have access to new content from Alex means putting up with some fake praise for a VPN service, SquareSpace, etc...so be it.

> I don't fault Alex for shilling the same high-value ads that every other successful Youtuber does.

Just because everyone else is doing a wrong thing, doesn't make it ok if you do it, too.

Meh. The overwhelming majority of people consuming services like Nord VPN aren't doing it for privacy - that's just the 'safe' marketing schtick. People that subscribe to Nord and similar are doing it to avoid geoblocks.

One could argue that at least ExpressVPN is upfront about that in their ads.

Just few years ago everyone raved about VPN and called everyone an idiot for not using one

There's also a good Talks at Google by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, it's not quite as polished a video since it's a live demo. He covers a couple topics, poaching eggs, making mayo and hollandaise and a few others if I remember correctly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk_IKBPkGSg

This is why god invented stick mixers! mayo in 5 seconds.

With an immersion blender and a right sized container you can make your own mayonnaise in less than a minute. And true, its good and fun for a change, but still not as good as Dukes (the "crap" sold in stores). A BLT is not a BLT without Dukes.

Of course reasonable people can disagree: Julia Child was a huge Hellmans fan. Child advised people not to make their own mayo "because Hellmann's is the best."

https://www.mashed.com/292102/julia-childs-favorite-mayonnai...

Weird, I've looked at Safeway and WF before (my local stores) - even smaller delis - I've never seen that Brand (Dukes). It even has a yellow tint, which is a good sign. I will be on the lookout for it.

How does it compare with Kewpie?

Having grown up in the South, I was raised on Duke’s, and it remains for me the only acceptable mayo. It’s the mayo that can convert mayo-haters to the light (my wife included among this number). I’m glad that they are now distributing it more widely so that I can now find it at all the local grocers here in Indiana. A summertime tomato sandwich with Duke’s is one of the truly sublime expressions of gastronomy.

"They’re also shunning their parents’ preferred restaurants — Applebee’s, Ruby Tuesday, TGI Fridays"

Wait, were these really ever anybody's "preferred" restaurants?

On the mayo front, my 15yo has no problem with it. But he does seem to share the American cheese hatred of the new generation.

My latest youtube obsession has been cooking and food science in general. The more I learn, the most respect I have for foods like american cheese and hershey's chocolate, if only for the incredible science and engineering that goes into them.

Though if it were practical, I do think most people would be better served by indigenous diets. The amount of suffering caused by western diets is immeasurable.

When you live in a small town you’re not going to be choosing between Michelin rated establishments.

American cheese is really "McDonald's cheese." I couldn't understand why it was good, until I had it on a burger. Once I did, I recognized it as the flavor on every McDouble. Then I knew, at least, its proper application: melted over a pan-fried burger.

> He’s a good son. I also have a daughter. She was a women’s and gender studies major in college. Naturally, she loathes mayonnaise.

This is gold.

I'm confused, what's the joke here?

Semen joke

I'm a millenial, what is an identity condiment? I googled it and all I got were a bunch of opinion piece articles written within a few days of eachother in 2018 saying they're the new way millenials are bad.

I'm 51 today and I have no idea what an "identity condiment" is either.

I suspect "scriptum wankery". That's where you splurge any old cobblers on a page and dress it up as journalism. I have just made that up and probably got the Latin bit wrong. However it does have a ring to it 8)

bruv clearly it's sriracha on everything bruv

Mayonnaise is an unfortunate casualty on the warpath to great victory, i.e. killing Yellow Mustard.

Generation X called. Yellow mustard is fucking rad. Many lonely, latch key days were spent with my neon yellow friend for sustenance.

Indeed, Dijon in the home is one of the greatest privileges of being a millennial :-)

True story: As a child of about 4, I saw my father eating yellow mustard on his burger and wanted to try some. Prior to that I had only ever had ketchup. My mother was opposed to this for reasons I can't really fathom (although now I realize she was just one of you and decades early). My father won out, if I recall, by claiming I probably wouldn't like it anyway. Well, I tried it, I loved it, and never ate ketchup again until decades later as an adult. At the height of my frenzy I used to make myself yellow mustard sandwiches. Yes, I am a monster.

Yellow mustard on wonder bread with a razor thin slice of mass produced prepackaged sandwich meat soaking in salt water.

I will see you on the field of battle. When I find you in my crosshairs, I will weep for your family. I will weep for your wrongness. But I will do my duty. Long live yellow mustard, the Divine Condiment God King.

Mayo has some very good applications: it goes well on a hamburger; it's an easy way to make a good grilled cheese. The issue is that nobody wants to eat a condiment as the binder in a "wet salad." In fact, I mostly just don't want a wet salad; I'd rather eat mashed potatoes than a potato salad, and having googled a Waldorf salad, it sounds like it would be outright better with the mayo just left out. The issue with the author isn't that people younger than him dislike mayo; it's that they dislike it as the "wet" ingredient in an otherwise milquetoast dish.

Good!

Death to the vile emulsion!

You're probably not going to win against an opponent that can use Aerosmith singing "Sweet Emulsion".

That vile emulsion helped me lose and keep off over 100 pounds, kind of by accident.

My blood sugar was higher than I wanted, and so I was making adjustments to try to lower it. I decided to try to shift toward lower carbs--but instead of aiming to reduce the absolute amount of carbs, I decided to try to reduce the percent of my calories that came from carbs hoping that the issue was one of balance rather than magnitude.

For sandwiches, the way I reduced the percentage of calories from carbs was to switch from ordering my sandwiches with no mayo or light mayo to getting them with regular mayo. I also started ordering them with double meat, and sometimes also oil or double cheese.

I did similar things with other foods. If a particular food had options, I'd add the options that increased proteins and fats. E.g., extra cheese and extra meat on pizza.

If a particular food I wanted could not be adjusted by adding fats or proteins, I'd try to only eat it in meals where I did have enough other fat and proteins to keep the carb percentage of the meal down.

As a completely unanticipated side effect of this, I found that my total calorie intake dropped by 30-40%. Evidently adding more fats and proteins made my food more satisfying and so I ended up not feeling the need to eat as much as before.

My favorite use of mayo is for toasting/frying bread for sandwiches. I had always used butter for that purpose but mayo works much better.

Well at least they did something worthwhile. I always ask for no mayo on my burgers, but they still often fuck it up!

I like mayo but pretty much all shelf mayo is made with oils that are bad for you. Even some brands which claim to use olive oil primarily use another oil with olive oil further down the ingredient list.

Good God, what on earth have you lot on the left side of the pond been up to (two years ago)?

I know first hand that the US as a whole is capable of delivering some incredible flavours - many of which are frankly world beaters - even at a "fast food" level. My exhibit A has to be something like TLC (Texas Land and Cattle). This chain majors in grilled beef. They grill with aromatic chips and use decently aged beef. It's TX: the quality of the raw ingredient should be assumed superb and it is. Quantities are ridiculously large. I ask for "blue" and get it and it's still hot. Proper job. I could also whitter on about the quality of seafood in FL, and of course the Key Lime pie. LA - more quality seafood and in NOLA you get the utter nonsense that is the Po'boy: a monster sandwich that originated as a charity thing from those who had a little to feed the poorer than themselves. The Poboy has grown to gargantuan proportions. I could go on and on (I still have 20 states to visit) but:

Then you get to things like cheese and creme and supplementary flavours and sauces. Something goes wrong here. It's not endemic as such but something is a bit wrong. I am singling out the US but I see this everywhere to a much lesser extent.

For example - cheese: I have eaten some gorgeous cheese in the US but that's quite rare. "Swiss, Cheddar or American", which translates into "white with optional holes, off white, or weird" I think there's an orange coloured option too. If you are really unlucky, it is sprayed out of a can. They all taste like Monday (differing name, same thing).

Right, let's do sauce: Mayo is Belgian (Probably French invention but I think that BE is the main modern user around these parts. NL is also a contender). Ketchup: Complicated. Basic tomato ketchup ("You say tomatow ...") is probably GB. DE (Germany) has quite a lot of options including the divine "Gewurz" versions.

Mustard. Right, you lot have completely lost the plot here. Mustard should destroy your tastebuds by default or at least have some flavour. OK that's a bit daft. US bog standard mustard tastes like bog standard senf (German) with the flavour removed. DE has a lot of mustards beyond the stuff sold in the schnellis (fast food booths - Anglicised) and so does the US but it is hard to find. French mustard eg Dijon is quite mild but loads of flavour, English mustard is rather warm but not rudely hot. A touch of the stuff can enhance a boring mouthful or make a good one sing. Our horse-raddish on the other hand can leave you completely breatheless.

BTW I live quite close to Cheddar ie the gorge, where the cheese comes from.

Even if they can kill the mayo industry in the USA, I doubt they'll ever kill it in Eastern Canada/Quebec. It is just too ingrained culturally with the food there.

Mayo is a staple in my cooking. Kewpie and the normal Best Foods. Great for marinades, great as a sauce base.

Kewpie, soy sauce, pizzazz on white rice is just tasty. Or kewpie on noodles :)

I agree with the Kewpie part, but you should try swapping out the Best Foods stuff for some homemade mayo.

Kewpie just has something (besides the prodigious amounts of MSG) that is hard to replicate.

I would like to handmake Mayo!

That said, for stuff like a base for a chicken marinade (it works great for chicken chopped and pan fried), Best Foods does a good job imo.

Almost all the mayo on the shelves in my mass-market supermarket contains soybean oil. Really sucks. When did that happen?

I've searched recently for real mayo and all I find is mostly canola oil on the shelves in Canada.

Short version: "Get off my lawn".

Now if we could only kill off cheese on everything.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com