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Comment by PaulKeeble | Hacker News Reader

Anecdotally Kefir seems to work surprisingly well. A variety of people have reported it solving IBS and it is definitely improving mine and has widened the foods I can eat. I recommend Kefir quite highly, it does seems to work and I noticed the positive effect within a week.

I use the grains in full fat milk, getting raw milk is ideal but isn't easy and don't usually bother. The process works fine in pasteurized milk anyway. I was also lactose intolerant before I took the Kefir and it didn't upset it thankfully, it actually cured it.

The main thing to really be aware of is to start slowly with a few tablespoons rather than gulping down all 250ml of your first few batches, it can be quite intense on the system until you adapt to it.

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I'd add that it helps to also drop other processed foods. Avoid sugar, chocolate, soda, sugar free drinks. Use spices sparingly.

Eat home cooked meals, use large variety of vegetables and large portion of vegetables with meals. Add garlic to home cooked meals. Once feeling able, eat fruit regularly.

Improvements may take months to be noticeable. Once healed, bowel movement normalizes.

Solved my own gut issues that way. They'll flair if I go back to processed foods for any length of time.

Exercise is also a key component to keep inflammation at bay. Take up running or biking.

Avoid sugar free drinks?

> Use spices sparingly.

> Add garlic to home cooked meals.

Those two things aren’t compatible.

Is there any science behind these declarations or is it mainly a rehash of what you happened to do when your issues went away?

Garlic is not a spice. It is an allium, in the same family as onions and leeks.

Not sure what definition of spice you're using, but Wikipedia calls it "a plant substance primarily used for flavoring food", which garlic definitely is.

I would define a spice as a non-nutritive plant substance used for flavoring and not consumed as an independent entity. Garlic is not non-nutritive, and it is consumed by many people as a whole food. Whole roasted heads of garlic are awesome.

Chilli peppers are also consumed as independent entities, but chilli powder is definitely a spice. Similarly ginger.

Why does it need to be non-nutritive? That would rule out things like ginger, many chili peppers, some plant greens like basil, even sesame seeds. I would consider all of the above spices, as well as garlic.

I would consider all of those to be vegetables, herbs, or other types of consumables, not spices. I would consider dried and ground chili peppers a spice, and fresh whole ones to be a vegetable.

That seems reasonable. But then to bring it back around full circle- would garlic then indeed be a spice, when used as an individual clove finely chopped in a larger dish for flavoring purposes (or garlic powder), by the same logic you're applying to peppers?

Not a big deal though. It sounds like you apply stricter categorical food definitions than I do, and that's fine. It's hard to draw exact lines.

My apologies - fresh ingredients like those would be fine in my case. I was unclear and meant processed spices in powdered form which seem to act as some kind of gut irritant (for me)

I guarantee you just about every spice eaten at the same bulk as a head of garlic would be 'nutritive.' Especially fresh.

Drinks sweetened with Stevia may be ok. I guess each person has to experiment. I've read that artificial sweeteners alter the gut flora in a bad way.

Spices - I meant dried form powdered spices. Yes n=1. I found this out when I read of cinnamon benzoate free diet used to treat other conditions.

I went from drinking a lot of coke / soda / fruit juice drinks to the natural progression of cutting back on sugar. I kept drinking sugar free versions of various drinks for a long time. I then cut them completely as they had a negative effect for me. If you drink one, it's not obvious and may not be an issue. Drinking those things every day... maybe some people are ok but eventually my body rejected that.

Water, tea, coffee are ok in my experience..

I am not claiming a cure, I added suggestions to include with the parent posters advice that I found helpful. As always work with your doctor and follow their advice.

> Drinks sweetened with Stevia may be ok. I guess each person has to experiment. I've read that artificial sweeteners alter the gut flora in a bad way.

I think the query around "sugar-free drinks" was that this phrase would normally include drinks like water that have no sugar or artificial sweeteners rather than just artificially sweetened drinks.

Warning - garlic and onions can be terrible for those with IBS triggered by FODMAPs.

That's true. I know someone who can eat fresh garlic but can't eat onions (explosive D). I don't know why - I suspect each person has different gut bacteria that can cause or trigger these problems.

This is about as confusing as it can get. Avoid sugars but also eat fruit regularly? Don't use spices but also add garlic?

It's not confusing. Refined sugar by itself or in processed foods is not healthy. Fruit has fiber and nutrients that are helpful for the body.

I listed things that helped me. Fresh garlic (I should have been specific) on a regular basis has been good in my case. Spices (specifically dried powder form - sorry this wasn't clear), in my case, they tend to be a gut irritant.

refined sugar is almost the exact same stuff that is in most fruits, just the balance between glucose and fructose is slight different. It makes no sense to recommend fruits while advising to not eat anything with refined sugars in it.

A variety of people have reported it solving IBS

I had IBS from about age 10 to 27. I thought it was completely normal to have "stomach troubles" 3+ days per week for that period of 17 years.

What fixed it for me was drinking a ton of water and eating 35-40 grams of dietary fiber per day. I went from 3+ stomach trouble incidents per week to literally about 1 per year. Other than the dietary fiber, I eat whatever I want including extremely spicy food on an almost daily basis.

YMMV. My diet to manage IBS has minimal amounts of fiber. The focus on fiber of the past few decades has been mostly sales driven (i.e. breakfast cereals), the research is quite lacking. As usual in dietetics, no size fits all.

Most breakfast cereals have what I would consider low fiber - like 3g. Milk with lactose also isn’t a great choice for a lot of people.

I’ve never heard of a low fiber diet for IBS. In fact the first dietary suggestion on the non-profit IFFGD’s website is to increase fiber intake:

https://aboutibs.org/treatment/ibs-diet/dietary-fiber/

I have heard of people having problems with fiber if they rapidly increase intake or if they don’t drink enough water. I target 1.5 to 2 gallons of water per day.

As you said, everyone is different but you’re just the first one I’ve heard aided by a low fiber diet.

Metamucil can draw water into the lower intestine, which is terrible for some forms of IBS-D. Fibre is worth a try but it's not a magic bullet and can actually cause flares in some people.

As others in the thread have mentioned, the carnivore diet seems to work as well: https://crohnscarnivore.blogspot.com/

Indeed carnivore has 0 grams of fiber, and solves any digestive issues for me, as well as feeling incredible.

2 gallons of water? Is that like 8 litres? That's an enormous amount of water. I have to force myself to drink 2 litres a day

You've never heard of a low fiber diet, I've never heard anybody recommend that amount of water. Again, no size fits all.

I struggle to drink 2 litres. I got frustrated and got an app which will remind me and keep track of how much I am drinking and turns out I am drinking on average 1L. Any techniques you follow ?

My technique is very simple. I bought a water filter jug which I can fill and bring to my desk (I work an office job). Turns out that simply having the water available within reach rather than having to get up to refill my glass helps a lot (and the improved taste of the filtered water doesn't hurt - but this may not be necessary depending on the quality of the tap water where you live).

Going grab one gym bottles over the weekend. Thanks

If your IBS resolves itself by just adding more fiber, it probably was not IBS

I make my own kefir and part of my process is to let it “finish” fermenting in the refrigerator. It definitely tastes different after a few days in the cold, and I never really thought about how maybe there were different bacteria/yeast contributing to this compared to the first ~24 hrs on the counter. To the extent kefir helps, I now wonder how the temperature of fermentation affects people with CD?

It's not whether temperature of fermentation affects people, it's how much it affects microbes. Every fermentation process is dependent upon microbes (bacteria, yeast) acting on a food source at a specific temperature range. Different microbes act at different temperatures leading to different byproducts. For example, with brewing and vinting, cold temperatures can inhibit the "good" microbes and instead accelerate the growth of "bad" microbes, and too much temperature can generate undesireable byproducts. It's often necessary to use methods to control temperature in order to get the desired reactions and inhibit the undesired ones. Otherwise you could get sick from drinking improperly brewed beer.

I mean I assume the temperature of fermentation would affect people via the microbes. Perhaps I’m not following what distinction you’re making?

Also my understanding is that lagers are cold-fermented. Are you suggesting that’s somehow a “riskier” beer?

What I mean is that saying "the temperature of fermentation affecting crohn's" misses all the other details (what microbes are you trying to grow, what byproducts you want, how much, what fuel, for how long). Maybe you had a specific set of variables in mind already, but it didn't seem clear to me, so speculating just on temperature seemed to be lacking critical details.

Cold fermenting uses a different yeast that reacts at a different temperature and acts on a different fuel at a different rate and is safe when done properly. Of course with all brewing you try very hard to sterilize and keep any bad bacteria out of your batch. Having the right yeast at the right temperature with the right fuel at the right time and for the right duration is all critical to get the result you want. Change any variable and you can get a drastically different result (and thus a different affect on crohn's)

> Maybe you had a specific set of variables in mind already, but it didn't seem clear to me, so speculating just on temperature seemed to be lacking critical details.

The low temperature/microbes/Crohn's connection came from the OP. Someone else connected kefir benefiting Crohn's. I was only drawing attention to my own experience with a temperature effect in kefir and speculating that there might be a further connection.

You mentioned that it cured your lactose intolerance. So are you now able to drink any amount of milk without side effects? I have extreme lactose intolerance, so I will give it a try if that is the case.

Also, do you have any links to the sources that you used for preparing/procuring Kefir?

I haven't tried any amount but I can now happily have 300ml and eat foods containing milk and lactose in normal quantities. According my genetics I should be mildly lactose intolerant (2 of the 5 genes IIRC) so I am fairly average in that regard but the intolerance with cramps and pain was more recent.

I bought a KEFIRKO and Kombuchaorganic grains and the kefirko came with the instructions on the process but you can also get guidance on /r/kefir. Its just 250ml of milk + grains for 24 hours (initially probably 36 hours until it thickens) and filter it and clean and do it again.

It is a good substitute for milk if you are lactose intolerant, but only if you have minor form. I doubt it helps if you have a severe form because it still contains lactose (less because fermentation) and it will certainly not cure it.

But aside from the potential benefits for digestion, which many people do indeed report, it is also quite tasty.

I think Kefir is basically just other microbes for yogurt where a special fungi is added (a form of yeast).

The yeast: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/Sb5d1MJH-znhox3iz_SI...

Looks like a milk brain...

Does it help your IBS or your Crohn's?

IBS. Getting assessed for Crohn's isn't really possible in the NHS at the moment since its collapsed for most non emergency care ever since Covid hit, I have been unable to get any specialist appointments to assess it properly. Now I don't have to.

Ah fair enough. My younger brother has quite severe Crohn's that he keeps in check with some pretty hectic drugs, and sadly had very little benefit from various diets and other changes. The rest of my family has IBS though, so this is good info for some of them to try

Did you also use homemade kefir?

Yes, you can buy it but its half the price to do it yourself a lot better bacteria wise. You need some starter grains and 250-300ml of while milk every day, a container and filter. I bought a KEFIRKO as well which seems to do a good job as a container and filter and makes the process easy. Takes about 3 minutes a day to prepare the drink and set it up for the next day.

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