Drinking year-old eggnog to put science to the test (2014) | Hacker News Reader

Drinking year-old eggnog to put science to the test (2014)

chicagoreader.com

50 pointsnielsbot49 comments

I make Alton Brown's recipe every year. Aged eggnog is delicious. I'd never realized that aging it (at least 3 weeks) actually makes it safer.

[0] - https://altonbrown.com/recipes/aged-eggnog/

I have two batches of this in my fridge right now!

Thanks to covid, I didn't have enough guests over to finish off last years batch. First time I've had some survive the holidays! Defiantly looking foreword to taste-testing 1 year old vs 1 month old batches this year.

Makes it safer if it's uncooked, but most eggnog is cooked (like crème anglaise or ice cream base).

I've always been under the strong impression that raw-egg-eggnog is overwhelmingly the default, and the only eggnog that is cooked/pasteurized is the store-bought stuff. After all, what's the point of making your own eggnog otherwise?

I've never made eggnog, but lately I'm starting to learn to make other things with eggs, such as mayonnaise and lemon curd.

You can buy pasteurized eggs at the grocery store, and some people claim you can pasteurize eggs at home (though the USDA says otherwise). In that case the eggs and milk would be pasteurized, but the eggnog itself would be uncooked.

Interesting to consider that bit about the USDA and home pasteurizing eggs. I do a lot of ice cream/frozen custard style things and have used raw yolks before after using low temperature cooking via immersion circulator to "pasteurize" them first. I usually refer to Douglas Baldwin for a majority of this stuff. http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html Though the first article that popped up on the search has some good reading on it from what I'm seeing. https://www.streetsmartkitchen.com/how-to-pasteurize-eggs-so...

> mayonnaise

how do you blend it? a lot of recipes call for an immersion blender..

Not the person you asked, but you can make mayo with a bender or a whisk. Emulsions like mayo or (no-egg) aioli are tricky until you learn to see how they behave, and after that are pretty easy.

Whisk is the typical way to make mayonnaise.

BTW, the "cooked" version of mayonnaise is called 'sabayon' or zabaglione and is often used in desserts.

Honestly, I haven't surveyed enough people so I can't say with absolute certainty, but at restaurants, the home cooks I know and of course all store bought stuff whether mass produced or artisanal has been cooked.

I've actually made "instant" egg nog right in the cocktail shaker... and it's been a hit

https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/baltimore-eggnog-3415575

Probably not as food safe as the aged version, but still quite tasty. Not eggy. However the linked article says "The USDA estimates that one in every 20,000 eggs contains salmonella bacteria, which means that the average consumer would encounter a contaminated egg once every 84 years."

Most (non-alcoholic) eggnog is pasteurized, I'd say it's a rarity to have 'cooked' eggs.

When I make it, it's generally still really alcohol-laden in the mouth until ~ 3 weeks. The longest I've ever kept it is 6-8 weeks but I've heard good things about a year or longer

The difference between "cooking" and "pasteurizing" is only a few degrees: I've seen 138F for pasteurization while 142F starts to cook.

I've never heard of eggnog with literally cooked eggs (chunks of egg and yolk? Yikes.). I would guess they meant "cook" in the loose sense of heat to kill bacteria (rather than cross-linking the proteins to create a solid)!

There's literally an entire class of pastry creams involving egg yolks cooked into cream. With the proper technique it stays homogeneous.

- Egg nog

- Crème anglaise (and offshoots like Bavarian cream)

- Crème pâtissière/pastry cream (plus offshoots like millefeuille cream)

- Lemon curd

- Ice cream base

Anglaise, pastry cream and lemon curd also form the base for the majority of thickened cream preparations that end up in layered cakes and other pastries.

Ah, so you stir it while heating or dilute it enough or something and that prevents coagulation?

You also cook it to a temperature that causes it to pasteurize, thicken but not scramble. Or add starch which prevents it from scrambling for the ones cooked to a higher temperature. You stir while cooking very slowly until it reaches a specific temperature.

Oh, so my guess about stirring was wrong -- that doesn't matter (was thinking it would be like stirring ice cream while freezing)? How sensitive is the homogeneity to starch concentration when heating above 142F? Are there any other parameters in the technique besides temperature and starch concentration?

No your guess about stirring was right I just added more info and specified (coagulation does happen but different protein molecules cook at different temperatures). It's very sensitive to starch in the sense a relatively small amount of starch will prevent scrambling.

Temperature and starch are the main considerations WRT not scrambling the eggs.

Anglaise/ice cream/pastry cream/curd all have varying amounts of fat (milk vs cream or mix), sugar and it'll all affect the consistency.

I sous vide mine at around those temps which is below the coagulation temperature, and makes it perfectly safe with no chunks of cooked egg.

I think you need to clarify "around those temps." From what I understand, if you stay below 142F, it won't coagulate. Are you just saying that sous vide is precise enough that you can do your own pasteurization? Or are you suggesting 142F isn't quite a hard cutoff? Either way, that's good to know.

A standard $100 usd Sous Vide wand can easily hold ±1°f if you use it in a small insulated cooler. I regularly use mine to pasteurize and soft-boil eggs - I like to give eggnog as gifts and I hate a solid yolk. I've never actually tested the pasteurized eggs for salmonella afterwards. I wonder what test-strips cost?

Commercial eggnog definitely uses pasteurized and sugared egg yolks (generally in small quantities); they come as a homogenized liquid. For home cooks who don't have access to pasteurized (or to pasteurize) eggs, or don't want to have alcohol in their drinks for the raw "real" stuff, you can always make a cooked custard base, strain it to remove any coagulated bits, and then thin it with additional dairy before serving.

My testing lines up with Kenji's: https://www.seriouseats.com/is-aging-holiday-eggnog-worth-it

1 month is worth it, 3 months is great, after that I don't necessarily find it's worth it. That said, I have one last pint jar of November 2019 sitting in the fridge that I need to open soon and test....

I made a batch that I let sit for a year. After the year I would describe it as disgusting, bordering on inedible. I still don't know whether I screwed up or just don't have a taste for it, but I haven't tried it twice.

Edit: Reading the sibling's Kenji link, which references TFA, I definitely agree with these sentences:

> Julia Thiel of the Chicago Reader claimed that year-old nog had "more depth and complexity of flavor," but that "the booziness made it a little difficult to drink."

> Thiel's assessment is most in agreement with my own. The nog was definitely more complex—new flavors had developed that are not present in fresh nog—but the booziness came strongly to the forefront.

Just to try to calibrate to your taste: do you drink any spirits neat? If so, at what proof?

e.g, I'll drink bourbon neat as high as 120 proof, but that's definitely been an acquired taste.

I'll drink 120 proof whisky neat and enjoy it all day, but there's something about Eggnog and every other creamy/fatty cocktail that brings forward a harsh, rubbing alcohol-like sting that I can't stand. I'd love to know how exactly that works but haven't found any answers yet.

The one I'm really trying to figure out is an experiment with soaking apple pieces in bourbon for apple pies. The result is a lovely slightly tart apple whisky that has a boozy harshness that's tamed by a bit of honey.

I made a double-sized batch of this a few weeks back for a holiday party this weekend and for the holidays. First time and can't wait to try!

> Whether it’s three weeks old or three years old, aged eggnog is actually safer to drink than fresh eggnog made with raw eggs—as long as you put plenty of booze in it. (Not that raw eggs are all that dangerous in the first place. The USDA estimates that one in every 20,000 eggs contains salmonella bacteria, which means that the average consumer would encounter a contaminated egg once every 84 years.)

That seems hard to square with the information that "Eggs and egg-containing foods are the primary vehicles of S. Enteritidis infection, having been implicated in 298 (80%) of the 371 known-source S. Enteritidis outbreaks reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) from 1985 through 1999", taken from this article:

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/11/1/04-0401_article

Between 2 and 4 out of every hundred thousand people were getting sick from it, I don't know the exact maths but it seems believable that all of these statements are broadly true.

Think about it this way: a household of 4 might use a dozen eggs per day. At 1:20000, that's 4.5 years between seeing contaminated eggs. If the sanitary procedures reduce risk by 80%, they have a problem every 22 years or so.

A moderately busy restaurant can use a thousand eggs per day. If their procedures are only 95% effective, they have a problem almost every year.

300 outbreaks in 15 years suggests that restaurants have egg handling procedures that are better than 95% effective.

> a household of 4 might use a dozen eggs per day

That's a lot!!! Even when I was raising chickens, we didn't get anywhere near those numbers: I gave away eggs like crazy.

Maybe it's a societal thing? Certain cultures use eggs a lot more than others?

Eggs are a pretty common breakfast item, and they are also used in many dishes. A dozen is on the high side, but if your whole family likes eggs for breakfast or you like to bake, I could see it.

I was giving a purposefully high estimate on the household side, and an easily exceeded estimate on the restaurant side -- a Denny's or Waffle House is probably higher, a McDonald's is probably much lower.

That said, waffles and scrambled eggs are not an impossible breakfast, and if you also make bread and ice cream that day, two dozen is plausible. But that's unlikely to happen every day.

As someone who loved eggnog as a child (my favourite was eggnog with Honeycomb cereal), and who has since become glucose intolerant (surprise, surprise), I've made a low-carb version of Alton's recipe in recent years, and it's not bad, but nowhere near the original as I remember it.

The only drawback is that without sugar, it's missing a 'thickness' element. I've tried erythritol, but (despite a glycemic index of 1), it seems to affect my blood sugar and I have to stick with stevia powder. I've also tried thickeners such as xanthan gum and inulin, but they end up making the eggnog 'slimy'. Egg yolk, cream, and almond milk all supply some net carbs, and in liquid form, they raise blood glucose levels rather quickly, which isn't great for someone who can't easily counteract a sudden rise in glucose, but a small glass doesn't seem to affect me. Ironically, the rum has zero carbs, as does the bourbon, but cognac is definitely out - can't say I notice.

I've even tried to steam the mixture with my espresso maker wand to add thickness - making sure I stay under 140 degrees. Unfortunately, I think even though the overall temperature of the liquid is less than 140, the steam seems to 'cook' the egg as it exits the wand, making the eggnog a but 'chunky' - it was worth a shot!

Maybe try Gum Arabic as thickener? When I make a simple syrup with it the result has a very velvety texture. But it does take a while to fully dissolve - I leave it in the sous vide for a few hours.

Similarly, you can try a low heat over the stove top, or the sous vide, to thicken it like cooking a custard, that would avoid curdling the eggs.

Great suggestion; I've never tried gum arabic in anything, but it looks like it's close profile-wise to the other thickeners, so I'll pick some up and give it a shot. I should have mentioned that I do cook the egg yolks over a double boiler (as if I'm making a hollandaise sauce), but the almond milk really thins out the mixture, plus I have to cut back the cream to half the amount (9g is too many carbs in a cup). Thanks for the tip!

Just had a sip from a bottle that was stored open at room temperature for 4+ years. Apparently I'm still alive.

RemindMe 24 hours.

;-)

I prefer this version which forgoes the dairy until drinking time which I find to be smoother and less harsh than adding it upfront:

https://www.cooksillustrated.com/how_tos/6704-eggnog-better-...

For the curious, a very similar "drink" in Italy is called "Bombardino". [0]

It's supposed to have some brandy added to the eggnog, I think.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardino

Here's my recipe for eggnog:

https://benovermyer.com/recipe/eggnog/

I think I might try aging it. That sounds like a fun idea.

I use Alton Brown's recipe, and I've sampled at various ages. Personally, I couldn't tell the difference between 1mo up to 1yr. 1mo is the best, IMO, but you want at least 2wks to meld the flavors.

These articles come out of hibernation every year and remind me, but it's too late! This year I'm making a batch (without the dairy), labeling it, and leaving it for Christmas 2022.

Make a great christmas mustard from scratch using mustard seeds instead. That's what I randomly got enthusiastic about today. Seems pretty easy, and with a pretty wide range of ways of mixing your way to your perfect mustard.

Not sure if "christmas mustard" is a thing in the US though. Perhaps not.

It should be... I love the concept of seasonal mustards. Care to share what recipe you landed on?

>Not sure if "christmas mustard" is a thing in the US though. Perhaps not.

Sadly, no. Maybe in the more German-influenced areas like Pennsylvania, but it does seem like a tradition that needs to be more widespread.

Now that's how you write a title folks

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