Comment by h2odragon | Hacker News Reader

Comment by h2odragon | Hacker News Reader

Going on 30 years, I have had a pack of working hounds, usually from 4 to 12 strong. We have rural land surrounded by large plots of more rural land, 4,000 acres+ of tree farm and private hunting preserve, so our hounds are necessary for keeping coyotes and etc off livestock and other pets.

In that time we've had many litters of puppies, usually trading them with neighbors to improve the local landrace and pass around some of the best traits. There's a steady input of "dumped purebeed" in the local mutts, they never survive long unless rescued.

"Pure" breeds are useful in being controlled and defined parameters to breed from; hybrids are the best "working" dogs however. IMO.

Our greatest successes have been with hunting hounds (bluetick coonhound or great danes) x "herding dogs" of some spread. The border collie x Bluetick cross produces some great dogs but there's a high proportion of psychopaths; expect 1:20 or so to be one of those puppies you just cant do anything with without insane effort. Bluetick x Catahoula are more mentally stable but likely to fall to the "merle on merle" cillia based health issues. (Digestive trouble and/or hearing issues)

Great danes x collie were robust, intelligent, big dogs that avoided almost all the inhertibale issues of the parent lines; but that's a cross you don't want to undertake raising without significant time. They're as bright as a small child and they feel they need a job: furthermore if you're not the boss, they feel they have to be. Of 4 litters (all large, hounds are profligate) we got 2 willful and bright enough I'd call them "psycho pups". Bad news at that size and vitality. Great for a herd dog, but only if you don't care about having input into how the herd is run.

I've read through your thread, and your takes are super interesting and I'd love to learn/read more. If you have a dog blog/newsletter or anything I'd love a link, and if not I'd encourage you to make one

Thank you for sharing, I really enjoyed reading this. It was informative and quite enjoyable to read. I'm also very jealous of the amount of space you have.

I've got 10ac in the middle of this. There's drawbacks (we get snowed in for 2wk by 12in of snow) but there's compensations.

My opinion is 10 is about perfect, big enough but not too big. I can appreciate the perspective, I take a lot for granted in the city and detaching my family from a major metropolitan area will be a living shift.

We had a Beagle, or perhaps Beagle x similar hound (it was on the upper end of size for a beagle). I loved him, but he was a psychopath while also being the smartest dog I have ever had. I firmly believe some of the smartest dogs are some of the least trainable.

Really interesting, thanks for posting. What do you practically do with the psychopath dogs/pups? Presumably the 'insane effort' required to keep them in line doesn't square well with all the other hard work your farm requires. Are you essentially forced to give the mentally unstable ones to a shelter?

Not OP. Dogs are pack animals, so less bright are kept in order by pack. They are still usable for guarding, but can not be used for herding or hunting.

"Psychopat" dogs have to be put down. Risk they attack something is too big. But they are rare.

I put the effort into the first one i met; she was named "Rascal" and one of the best dogs evar! (as they all are, of course :)

I had her when the next one decided she needed to try to be boss; and then that pup left to run a wild dog pack for a couple years. they were decent neighbors but didnt thrive. We'd put out food at their corner of the place and they'd sometimes accept some, she set and respect boundaries otherwise.

I tried to keep one of the great dane ones, she came after me at about 9mo old and >100lb; i still have scars. I put that one down then.

I had one other of the danes i wasn't sure about, so I placed it with a guy who does "police / guard dog" training and heard it responded well.

One of the more notional of the bluetick crosses got a job as a junkyard dog, where he didn't have to worry about people too much and vice versa.

We've got a local "no kill" shelter we've been to several times, they have several dogs i classify as "psycho" too. None of mine, and I haven't tried adopting any of them (though i have helped take them to the vet sometimes).

My view is that kind of dog can't be happy without a job and care and is unsafe to let roam where there may be humans for it to hurt. Shelter or dead and I can argue either side of "which is better". Having fostered the birth of a dangerous animal, I feel some responsibility to see it doesn't present a risk to others; and finding jobs for them, keeping them in a jail, or putting them down is a burden.

Thanks for sharing!

I’m curious how you’d identify a “psycho” dog in a shelter, assuming you don’t have tons of time with the dogs. Are there some particular traits that are obvious or quickly identifiable?

I’m curious just from a knowledge perspective, but also what someone should look out for if they’re adopting a dog?

My wife calls me a werewolf, I can't say she's wrong. I speak dog.

"Psycho" is probably a bad word to use. "Independent" could fit many of them. Too smart to be dogs. ... It's a spectrum and many of them can find places they fit.

There are dogs that you just can't trust. The ones whose greatest joy is being aggressive, and are independent minded or otherwise unwilling to listen to anyone else anymore. Or too stupid to understand, for whom the world is a terrifying place and there is nothing but cringe.

One of Rascal's puppy moves was, after peeing on the floor and not wanting to be pushed outside, a leap for the throat and bulldog "hang on and wrench" attack. That kind of disproportionate response is a bad sign. Lack of fear and "pain don't teach" are bad signs. Perhaps this dog would respond better to someone else or another dog or something but then again maybe not.

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