It's so hard to trust Microsoft anyway, I'm glad 11 is such a tranwreck dead on arrival. Makes it easier to discourage people from using it, ever.
It's so hard to trust Microsoft anyway, I'm glad 11 is such a tranwreck dead on arrival. Makes it easier to discourage people from using it, ever.
Every kind of technology today has clear and visible dark patterns. In the past it was advertisement everywhere and now it is user-hostile design. See any discussion about smart tv, subscription services, webshops, smart devices, phones, apps or any other technology topics and the issue of dark patterns will pop up. It is a race to the bottom, and I can see the rationale by Microsoft. They are doing the same thing as google is, just a slight step further.
If people switch to Apple then third-party browser must use iOS WebKit framework, and reportedly have their performance limited to make safari better in comparison. They could go linux but then people complain about a lack of polish and compatibility with programs/hardware that they use and so return back to either windows or mac.
As a person who have been working with computers for my whole life and used to be quite excited by new technology, it is quite often that I get tempted to become a farmer and leave behind the dark world of technology.
Instagram's log-in to view anything (even public pages) is everywhere now. If you go to Twitter and click a person's name or click a tweet, you get a log-in pop-up.
Let Caeser have his awful stuff. We can all push for fun, and free computing.
At least Pottering isn't trying to extort loans from me when I start/stop a service.
False. The FOSS software that I personally use is less useful (on a practical technical level) on average than its technical equivalents.
And beyond my specific tools (which I admit could just be the bad parts of FOSS), FOSS software is near-universally bad (along with almost every other piece of software I've touched - this isn't a condemnation of FOSS, only a pointing out of the fact that it's not good, just better), and nowhere close to a "computing utopian dream". The amount of issues that I've found in open-source software wouldn't fit in a blog post, let alone an HN comment (although if anyone really wants I could provide a sampling).
You can say that some pieces of FOSS are better than their proprietary equivalents in a technical sense, sure - but I've never actually found a single piece of software, FOSS or not, that is anywhere close to "utopian" (or barely even "functioning").
Probably because of which fields you work in. But in software development, I'd say it is almost exclusively the case all over the board.
If you work in digital arts, then Blender is probably the best end-user application example I can think of.
I'm a software developer and have used the following pieces of software that were very non-utopian: gcc gdb sbcl vim emacs vscode atom tmux bash fish make cmake automake autotools m4 cpython pip mypy pyinstaller firefox gradle ant sbt chisel npm qmk (that is - everything I've touched). I also know that virtually everything related to webdev is just straight-up awful.
I've also used Blender and can testify from personal experience that it's bad.
What else is there?
I honestly think blender is a technical marvel that in many cases is better than its proprietary counterparts. The bar is quite high for these kinds of specialised and very expensive software. So, if blender is "bad", then perhaps the bar is set so high, that I don't think I can give a satisfactory answer.
"Utopian" in that there is nothing that could be better or improved is a higher bar than what I had in mind. But, just "better or equal than its proprietary counterparts", I do feel there are examples. Linux itself being a very clear one. There is a reason why it's the most used operating system by a mile (something like 90-98%). More contentiously I would also include it for desktop use. Hmm, perhaps AOSP also.
Out of the many tools you've mentioned, I've used most of them as well, and I don't consider any of them particularly great. But, what are the closed source alternatives that are better?
Perhaps also fish, as I cannot think of a better proprietary shell. Powershell and its windows integration is uaf.
Maybe some of my examples are skewed by the value I place on it not being controlled by corporate interests. That my usage isn't profiled, that I'm not exposed to dark patterns for KPIs at some board meeting.
I'm using the dictionary definition of "utopian", which is "Of, relating to, describing or having the characteristics of a Utopia." where "utopia" means "An ideally perfect place, especially in its social, political, and moral aspects." - that is, perfect software. Sorry if that wasn't clear - maybe I should have started by clarifying that first.
Now, even allowing for some very small resource cost (I think that it's unrealistic to expect even perfect software to consume no CPU, memory, or disk space), "ideally perfect" software is: low-resource-use, responsive, high-throughput, easy-to-setup, easy-to-learn, easy-to-use, easy-to-understand, ergonomic (efficient from a UI perspective), backward-compatible, forward-compatible, stable, well-documented, extensible (containing a powerful extension language and development environment for that language, and a large API that extensions/scripts can use), introspective, good error messages, easy to compile and develop, robust against internal and external errors, high skill cap, has all of the features that you need, and the largest force-multiplier possible without resorting to AI.
Given that definition, I hope you can see why I don't categorize any programs as being "utopian".
As for Blender - I don't use it frequently (I've just done some hobbyist modeling), but I can still name a few issues: can't open multiple blend-files at once, can't do real-time collaboration on a blend-file, no blend-file versioning, API in Python (which is not a great language, either by itself or for an extension system), no IDE for development of Python extensions in Blender, cmake build system for Blender itself, bad integration of operators into scripting (for decent integration, see Emacs' interactive functions, described more generally at [1]), no hot-patching of Blender code (emacs can hot-patch elisp code as it runs, and elisp makes up the majority of the tool, including almost all of the text-editing functionality - the same applies to Atom and JavaScript), no introspective facilities for Blender itself.
> Linux itself being a very clear one.
I don't believe that this is clearly the case. Linux is only the most used kernel (not OS/userspace) because of its inclusion into Android, and we have little reason to believe that the Android company chose Linux based on its technical merits and not because the only other alternative (Windows NT) required expensive licensing. On the desktop, Windows has a 95% market-share - does that mean that it's a technically superior desktop operating system? In fact, in the server realm, we also don't have any reason to believe that it was chosen for any reason other than the fact that it's free.
> But, what are the closed source alternatives that are better?
In most cases, you're right, there are none. (with a few exceptions: Visual Studio, PyCharm, PowerShell (I don't know what "uaf" means, but I do know that PowerShell's typed nature makes it infinitely better than untyped bash), Allegro/LispWorks, Sublime Text) But, I wasn't trying to say that open-source programs aren't better on average than proprietary programs - just that (a) there are exceptions and (b) everything is bad. That is - "bad", rather than "better" - relative vs. absolutely measurements. When you used "utopian", that's universally accepted to be an absolute standard of measurement, and given the common definition of it (listed above), I don't think that it applies to the vast majority of software.
But, to just focus on the arguments you had on Linux. Android is only a drop in the water in terms of Linux kernel usage. And we have every reason to believe they chose Linux based on its technical merits. It actually works pretty well for what an operating system needs to do. The top 500 supercomputers, worth billions (the fastest one alone cost 1 billion) don't pick Linux because it is cheaper. They pick it because it does what it needs to do, fairly decently. The NT kernel has a bag of decades old shit stinking up the place, so that's a no go. And MacOS forked Unix is not licensed to run on anything non-apple branded, not that that would matter, since there would be zero incentive to do so.
The argument presented that there is no open source software that is better than the commercial equivalent, is what I gave counter examples to. Which is demonstrably easy to argue against. Which I have done. You wouldn't want to use anything other than Linux for a supercomputer. AWS and GCP run their systems on Linux.
I feel the same about a lot of apps in F-Droid now. Sometimes their functionality is not as complete or they're not as polished as their Google Play counterparts. But the ad/crapware and mandatory logins that is included in those apps take away a lot of usability now.
At that point I gladly give up some polish for a 2MB app that is fast and does just what I need over a bloated 100MB app with stupid animations, ads and tracking. My battery loves it too.
The only thing that causes a comparatively bad experience on Linux is in part software availability or driver related, neither of which is the fault of the operating system itself.
Firefox, for all it's modern faults, is the only browser that's actually different in any substantial way.
I switched a year ago and I was emotionally prepared to fight a rough battle with problematic websites, incompatible apps and so on. I was very positively surprised. The only major PITA was the fact that I had to define MIME types for downloadable documents that I wanted to save by default - the usual box "remember this option" was missing for .mkv and the like. So far, this was the only major complaint on my part. Everything else was very positive, especially the containers, no forced Google logins everywhere, the availability of extensions that Google doesn't like (like Ad Nauseam) and so on. I wouldn't go back even if someone paid me (OK let's be honest: I'd do it if I was paid more than €1000 a year).
Putting ads in the address bar: https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/7/22715179/firefox-suggest-...
Recording what you type in the address bar: https://today.in-24.com/technology/450296.html
Putting ads on the New Tab Page: https://www.ghacks.net/2018/12/31/firefox-with-ads-on-new-ta...
Randomly installing Addons for people: https://itsfoss.com/firefox-looking-glass-controversy/
Some times installing addons without permission to promote TV Shows: https://gizmodo.com/mozilla-slipped-a-mr-robot-promo-plugin-...
They last 5-6 years, Mozilla has made a number of baffling decisions. And most of their advancements just seem to be very 'me too, me too!' as they chase design decisions made by Google.
Never going back to Chrome - even though I'm forced to use Google apps @ work, and it has noted incompatibilities with FF.
The auto-installed addons thing was a bit of a fiasco (though one which didn't affect me), but things like advertising or extension support are still worlds better in FireFox than on Chrome.
but boy has it made Brave more attractive.
I just feel like Mozilla has a very "Democratic Party" attitude. They do really stupid shit that no one likes and stares you square in the eye and says "what are you gonna do about it - vote for the other guy?" and it's super frustrating.
They also managed to ruin their privacy-oriented Firefox focus browser on mobile, by making it redirect website links to compatible apps - completely butchering its only use case as a private browser that lets you be online without any permanent sessions
You can turn this off
Ultimately I rolled back my installation to a previous build, and have refused to update it since. I'll give the latest build a try on my backup phone.
...Because apparently Safari no longer exists...?
Where does Safari fit in here?
I imagine the telemetry is extremely important. Knowing every activity done by every user is valuable to Google, or Microsoft, or whoever gets the chrome feed. Of course this is why I like brave, FireFox, safari and others as there is no similar telemetry.
about:telemetry
Full details on what is sent to Mozilla, how it's used, and easy to understand.
Additionally, if you don't like what's being sent, you're still able to disable telemetry.
If Microsoft started doing this, it would be a lot of negative attention. Whereas Chrome users haven’t cared about logging stuff for years now.
It's encrypted in transit, but it has to be decrypted to be meaningful to the end user and that's where they can eavesdrop, the kernel has full access to user memory and all syscalls, no?
>If Microsoft started doing this, it would be a lot of negative attention
They have a proprietary closed source kernel which can be reverse engineered by very few people outside Microsoft, I think putting a little backdoor there would be less noticeable than showing a message box to every user.
as a casual reader, I know this is false.. several HUGE efforts, have failed to gain the eyeballs of readers . repeating that there is only one choice, is not useful or constructive right?
Pretty much every other browser is based on Chromium. Some very niche ones on webkit.
That's the thing. I don't WANT a browser that's actually different. The web is a duopoly between Apple and Google, and everything else is a second-class citizen. The era of an "open" web came and went, passing us by as capitalism took over. Firefox offers no meaningful freedom when all the content it's supposed to consume was designed by and for big companies targeting other big companies' products and customers.
Using Firefox introduces a lot of headaches and subjects you to frequent, meaningless UI updates that add partner extensions against your will and show you recommendations that I don't want to see... Mozilla is desperately trying to stay relevant and has introduced a lot more dark patterns than Chrome has, all while adding no value beyond some vague, lackluster appeal to a libre web... too little, too late.
Google, for all its faults, makes a darn good browser. The only downside is that they track my habits. So what? I'm not particularly exciting, and the only real cost I've noticed, beyond needing an ad blocker, is that my Google News feed gets cluttered with shit I don't care about derived from my browsing history. But other than that Chrome is just wonderfully simple and clean compared to the bloated Firefox (and its lookalike clones, Opera and Edge).
Disabling ActiveX and Java (not Javascript) and having Just One Browser made for a remarkably clean and simple experience, the likes of which we haven't seen since.
For all the modern innovations, I don't think the fundamental premise of the web has changed all that much -- hyperlinks, text, and media -- but the user and developer experience has gotten a lot, lot worse over time as more and more money competed for eyeballs.
Edit: As for "work as hard and dedicate as much budget"... I hope they don't! A circa-2000s feature freeze on web browsers would be wonderful. Stop "innovating", i.e., creating trash features that only help huge enterprises selling trash advertising. The web doesn't need to be this complex; we're feature-rich and content-poor as it is. What started as a network for academics and info sharing ended up being a marketer's wet dream and a nightmare for everyone else.
What are you referring to?
I just remember that every time I reopen Firefox (to test it for something), some new annoying thing like Pocket or some other trendy extension I didn't ask for has suddenly appeared. And it's always bugging me with CHECK OUT WHAT WE ADDED popups. I don't CARE about your new features, just let me browse the web and stay outta the way, damn it.
To say nothing of things like FLoC, new web APIs that just so happen to be excellent ways to track you, neutering ad blockers, AMP integration, and so on.
I actually find that a very useful feature that keeps my settings and logins in sync across multiple computers and accounts.
> To say nothing of things like FLoC, new web APIs that just so happen to be excellent ways to track you
Still falls into the "it just tracks you" category... basically the only major downfall, which isn't a big deal to me. Everyone tracks you these days, and mostly an adblocker negates the effects.
> AMP integration
Yeah, AMP and its ilk (FB Lightning pages, etc.) were good ideas evilly implemented. Good thing AMP is on its way out.
> neutering ad blockers
That would be a big deal if and when it comes to pass (seemingly soon, perhaps?)
The thing is, aside from the ad blockers, most of those supposed downsides have had little to no impact on my user experience, vs the constant hassling of Firefox. I get annoyed every time I open Firefox. Chrome just works and actively makes my life easier with its syncing and auto logins. To you those may be downsides, to me they are helpful and unobtrusive.
The first point there is changing the API for their add-ons, which they did for performance, maintainability, and security reasons. No dark pattern there.
On Firefox Suggest (points 2 and 3), are you saying it is a dark pattern because their messaging when you enable the feature is not clear about what's happening? What's wrong with the messaging and how would you like it to be better?
With ads on the new tab page, I don't see what is a dark pattern about it? Or are you just saying that you don't like ads and wish Firefox would find another source of revenue?
With the Mr. Robot extension (points 5 and 6), I think it was a dumb choice, but again I don't see how it's a dark pattern?
If the semantics bother you, feel free to call it something else... an anti-feature, perhaps.
Every time I open Firefox it's different, and annoying in some new way. It's really gone downhill in the last decade.
FWIW this is also one of my least favorite things about FF. What the fuck is the point of unobtrusive background auto-updating if you're also going to annoy me with ads every single time you do it?
I see the fresh installs often because I only use Firefox to test occasional browser bugs (it's always Firefox), and then delete it a few weeks later when I no longer need it, then reinstall it later when I need to test it again. Every time it gets more annoying.
On that same point, whenever something starts failing to work on firefox (on Windows or Linux), I have come realize that it's probably an "unobtrusive auto-update" that is causing it. Sure enough, closing and restarting firefox gives me a new tab showing what was just "unobtrusively auto-updated", and whatever was broken is now working again.
I don't think they know what "unobtrusive" means.
Having said that, even with the previous complaints it's still much better than the privacy problems with chrome, at least in my opinion.
Only OS maintainers seem to give two hoots about efficiency… Google and Mozilla see no issue with turning your laptop into a battery destroying space heater, and the impact of Google’s part in this is outsize with every other app being built with Electron.
No.
If I type eba{Tab}query, firefox should search ebay for query. If I have to go to settings once and tick a box to enable this functionality, I will. I won't stop wanting what I want.
2. Find an eBay search engine you like, install it in Firefox.
Now, when you type eba{Tab} Firefox will suggest the search engine you installed, and your continued typing will be as a search in that engine.
I don't use this for eBay, but I do use it for Rust, typing e.g. rust{tab}iterator takes me to the documentation for std::iterator and related entries.
I think 11 is more about changing hardware requirements, requiring a TPM. The UI garbage seems more like an opportunity to try new things, they'll figure out that people don't like these new things.
I personally don't like the lack of old things. Namely being able to drag to the taskbar. That's baked into a lot of my workflows, and I can't believe they removed such a useful feature.
On a relatively recent (at the time) processor and ideally more than 1GB of RAM and it was absolutely fine.
It's reputation for instability was heavily due to early NVIDIA WDDM drivers being utterly crashtastic - this is something that did eventually get resolved. At the time I had an ATI card and it was perfectly stable.
Source: Over the years, an app I had my hand in was on one of the rotations.
IIRC Win7 was the one that started installing most drivers without any user effort, which was really nice. It also bloated minimum disk size to many times that of XP (or a very full-fat Linux install, so the drivers can't be the reason, since that also includes tons of drivers) but if you had the space, it was worth the trade-off.
Talk about timing...
8 and 8.1 were the last death throes of decent design, and then they started making a mess of everything in Windows 10. Not only didn't they reverse it with Windows 11, they doubled down on it when they had a perfect chance to rebrand with a "back to the classics" comeback to Windows 7-like UI without backlash.
Their trajectory is locked in. Barring a miracle and re-prioritising on their users, "good" Windows releases are dead forever. Looking forward to the LGR Retrospective on "Windows 7, the last good version of Windows" in about 10 years time.
No one cares about HDR. How about some decent data retention?
I get better frame rates in Linux running wine than I do in windows 10 since the 2020 updates.
Now all it would take them is a second to check the sizes of both and not remove the one with actual data but ya know that would be a actual useful feature.
And before you complain about to me about my "setup"... The scenario I described above is entirely common in IT departments the world over.
Now please stop blaming victims and start blaming the people that have the power to change things.
I just upgraded to Windows 10 21H2 last week, after upgrading to 21H1 a couple weeks ago. I'm looking at my C:\ drive with hidden files viewable and there is no "Users.old" or "Windows.old" folders.
This is on Windows 10 Pro using my personal Microsoft account, but the PC is managed through Intune so I can access corporate resources.
What I'm saying is, to use your own words, "you're objectively incorrect."
Sometimes individual user directories get moved if they are corrupted, but they still aren't in my experience deleted.
This is someone who uses linux for 99.99% of all computing things, so its not like I'm a Windows shill
Then again, I've seen Windows do weirder things.
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/update...
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/update...
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/window...
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/window...
and numerous others.
Why does it happen? I have no idea, and probably Microsoft doesn't either. Nevertheless, it means the update process is broken. After such a case you may feel like you have the alternative of either running unsecure system or losing your data, so you may even consider the first option. Except you can't unless you pay for the Enterprise version.
The other issue is being handled by the DBA but it sounds like he's getting a similar treatment.
Current bugs: - every MS app store app has the windows image preview program icon, despite following every guide I could find to fix this.
- sometimes WiFi just dies, and won't come back until I disable the card, full reboot, then enable it (Intel 6 chipset AFAIK, so not some noname brand)
- explorer randomly dies when switching virtual desktops and then comes back. I've had this one 3 machines now and I've no clue why.
Were you using an Nvidia graphics card and did you right click on the left box of explorer where the quick access toolbar is? This is a common issue with Nvidias context menu in that situation.
I still used a Start Menu replacer. That was one thing I wouldn't want to give up.
The issue is really that the front end experience has gone to shit and that windows boxes are inherently zero day hackable at random. With gaming there's memory leaks out the ass. When doing updates windows regularly ignores and resets settings. Not everyone wants to use defaults and not everyone has time to edit group policy settings every time there's a changes. Your IT team is definitely 100% debloating your system before imaging.
I'm over here coding, running vms, setting up ssh tunnels, streaming, recording video, playing music, doing teleconferencing and all manner of other nonsense. So yes my standards are a little out there.
But frankly I don't think windows should be able to be HIPAA certified because I don't believe it's possible to secure it. And trust me that's my job.
The workers at my job that use Chromebooks are by far the most secure in our entire IT stack.
The train wreck starts there. Who wants a system that auto upgrades itself without the user permission?
Windows is actively user hostile when it comes to updates.
And if Windows Home users should be able to disable automatic updates is debatable.
I personally believe it is arrogance to say that non-technical users shouldn't be allowed to control their own PCs. And besides, a lot of users of PCs at home are technical. So I strenuously disagree with you.
I mean, look at your language: "MS taking over is really not a big deal". How am I supposed to have interpreted that?
From there you can see what is being update and what the update does. You can even choose not to install one update or another or even not update a system component or another.
So, if you're afraid a new LO version may break compatibility with documents you work on but GNOME updates will improve usability, you can disable one specific update. Very simple and user friendly. For users who don't know, understand or don't care, they will simply click update.
Canonical is also planning to use snaps for some desktop or core components so they can have security updates automatically installed in the background. This is a somewhat polemic topic, but I understand their rationale: some people simply choose never to update because they have been burned by bad past experiences. Of course, the more advanced user can still disable it.
Prime majority of users don't upgrade BIOS, or don't even know what it is.
11 will be a short lived release just because of that, and them not only needing to backpedal, but to entice users into biting into a new bait, as all what is actually good in Win11 been kind of mentally displaced by the fiasco.
A supposedly sucks less Win11.1 will not do it to attract more users. A completely new release is coming.
It's crippled compared to Win10.
Aside from that, and a couple of UI annoyances (the placement of the start button and the re-arrangement of the start menu) I'm happy enough with Windows 11 that it will be a bummer for me if I have to go back.
For me it's little things like the way the context menu is cleaned up -but the old one is still available, and the file manager is similarly cleaned up. I also like that WSL is better than it was on Windows 10 (running gui apps are now an option without grafting a separate and half-assed X implementation ).
So yeah, I'd say "trainwreck" is a hyperbole -especially for anyone who had to use Windows 8!
Personally, I'm looking into Vivaldi; though I haven't switched over yet.
Almost every single person that I can think of in my life does not give a shit about an edge reminder. The one that does doesn't use Windows anyway.
Hackernew is a unique audience.
It still crashes way too much for me to use as my primary browser, and I only keep it because it is a better PDF reader than Chrome and I've not had time to find a replacement.
The websites don't seem to want to support Firefox, so Google definitely isn't blameless, but we should probably at least blame them correctly.
I use FF on Android too. Android is better than others. I have Chrome disabled on my phone and there are some things that just won't open without it. It won't let me shut off the "Play Protect" nag every single time I install or update something from F-Droid. I've accidentally turned it on countless times. But it is the least worst of the mainstream mobile OSes.