Comment by colechristensen | Hacker News Reader

Comment by colechristensen | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

colechristensen

I had a somewhat opposite experience: went through an interview process, accepted and then the company drug its feet about a start date which ended up taking weeks longer than expected after several delays for simple things like ordering equipment and other things which pointed to "we don't have our act together". I was committed and had already left my previous position and exited other interviewing pipelines.

I should have persisted and ghosted them, they ended up putting me in a different role than I had been offered and generally were extremely disorganized.

Honestly, I think going forward if you don't have me sign a contract and give me something in return (say, a signing bonus that is actually paid upon signing instead of weeks after I start), the deal isn't done until I start.

When you can't expect the other party to hold up to their side of the bargain because there are bad actors out there, it doesn't make sense to trust them or tell them what's going on until after everything is settled... and even then when litigation is such a concern...

Generally, no matter how amicable the relationship, if the terms aren’t in writing, then they are subject to change. Figured this out after a friend of mine who was renting a room in my apartment ghosted me for 3 months of rent heh.

Very sorry that you had this experience but yes NEVER consider a job offer finalized until a contract has been drafted and both parties sign. Until then it's all basically vaporware

Unless there's some consideration (i.e. money) changing hands, contracts like that are worth nothing but the paper they are on.

Simply not signing another work contract is consideration.

In the US in tech they’re basically a meaningless formality.

Interesting tidbit, in Sweden an offer over email (or verbally IIRC) is legally binding. It's quite common that you will only receive /sign the actual contract on the first day of work. Obviously this leads to confusion when hiring people from outside of Sweden.

I'm the UK I've had multiple jobs where I don't even see the contract until 2 months into work. Not sure of the legal frame work

I'm guessing we might be in different sectors, but FWIW I've never seen this in my >20 years in the UK. To me the situation you're describing would ring all sorts of alarm bells.

P.S. Not doubting your experience, just comparing it with mine.

The UK splits the legal stuff into an offer letter (”principal statement”) and the fine print (”wider statement”.) The latter is what most people informally call the contract, including the front page of these documents.

Employers must to provide you with the fine print within two months of your start date:

https://www.gov.uk/employment-contracts-and-conditions/writt...

Any incontrovertible evidence of an agreement of the job, verbal or written, counts as a contract. Everything else is just finalizing the terms and conditions, which either party can agree to amend at any later date and which many employers assert they can do unilaterally.

Signing a contract is normally worthless too, all of them tend to have very lenient notices so either side can just give the 1 week notice or whatever and that's it

> ... and give me something in return (say, a signing bonus that is actually paid upon signing instead of weeks after I start)

Is this common in the USA? In the UK I've never been offered or heard of anyone receiving a bonus for signing a contract. Does anyone have a different experience?

There are signing bonuses in the UK. I think you will be very unlikely to get it immediately on signing though - it's usually within the first couple of months of employment or with your first salary, something like that.

My personal experience has been that companies who give signing bonuses usually have retention issues and the bonus has to be paid back if you leave within a year. At least that was the experience when I graduated college. After becoming an experienced hire I haven’t been offered one.

It can vary by company and culture. Tech may be different, but in non-tech roles where equity isn't expected in most roles, signing bonuses can serve a function to nudge someone to leave a role they're comfortable in, or to make up for other aspects the candidate is losing out on by leaving at a certain time (e.g. annual bonus with 10a 10% of salary target pays out in March, but the new company wants you to start in January).

No, that's why the GP wanted it.

It 100% doesn't matter either way, as those bonuses always come with attrition requirements - you have to pay back all or part the bonus if you leave the company before some predetermined time period. If you don't agree to the payback terms then you simply don't get the bonus.

So a bonus paid before you start is more-or-less identical to a bonus paid with your first paycheck. You don't get to keep it if your offer is rescinded or you don't show up on your first day.

Thanks, but maybe I should have worded it better: is a bonus just for starting your job common? I've never heard of this in the UK applying myself or hiring. Only yearly bonuses for performance

Yes, they’re not uncommon, across a wide range of job types. I recently got a signing bonus for a part time job as an EMT for instance. In tech especially they can be quite large to offset stock options or bonuses the employee is giving up by switching jobs. If I’m about to be poached right before my annual bonus of x thousand pays out, I’ll want a comparable signing bonus.

Not common but also not unheard of, it's simply just an advance on your paycheck.

I've seen them be offered in jobs/industries/companies where there is a labor shortage or the job is difficult to fill for some reason. They might be standard-ish in some jobs/industries.

like I said, you'd almost always be required to stay for X amount of time - like a year plus usually, or you gotta pay some or all of it back.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com