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Comment by wtallis | Hacker News Reader

According to Microsoft's data, more than 85% of the command usage in Explorer is through keyboard shortcuts or context menus. Clearly, it isn't that hard to get used to using context menus and keyboard shortcuts.

It seems to me that a lot of people here on HN are simply using this issue to talk about how much better they are at using a computer than the ordinary person, who is apparently quite inept. Unless there is convincing evidence that people that incompetent are still a significant fraction of the userbase, we should stop designing desktop software to accommodate people who are not able to master the use of an iPad.

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This is a classic case of misinterpreting the data - 85% use it because the only way you can copy, without using a context menu or a keyboard shortcut is by holding down Alt and then clicking on the Edit menu.The point is, people use keyboard shortcuts & context menus because they have to today.

This is the danger with reading too much into simple data - just because 85% of the people do X, it doesn't mean that X is good. Do you expect the data to show that people don't copy paste because its not intuitive? No, in most cases they 'have' to learn it, and figure it out by asking a friend, but they don't enjoy the learning process (and indirectly, resent the platform itself).

Everyone who struggled with the concept of right clicking eventually learnt it - the problem is not that right clicking or context menus are impossible to learn. It's that they're not a natural way of interaction, and should be eliminated whenever possible.

You shouldn't have to learn to use a menu to do what you want, especially when 80% of the time you just need 4 actions.

The simplicity of modifiers (tap, double tap, swipe) is what makes touch platforms like iOS very intuitive. A direct, clickable button ensures that novice users can accomplish simple file management tasks by learning a single modifier (the click).

When I browse, I prefer to open pages from hyperlinks in new tabs. For example, if I google something, each result I pursue gets its own tab. Doing that in ios was not at all intuitive, and only discoverable by happenstance. (And it is VERY klunky, but that's another story).

Editing is also a pain in the ass on it. It is a wonderful os for very simple tasks, but as the complexity grows it is very limiting.

Maybe that's the moral of this thread.

>"Clearly, it isn't that hard to get used to using context menus and keyboard shortcuts."

What this may show is that it is mainly experienced users who use Explorer. And based on my personal experience, I believe this to be the case - most people do not know what Explorer is for, let alone how to use it efficiently.

The reason for using the context menu use in my case is that most options are available only from the context menu...e.g. "edit", "extract [from zip] all", etc. and it is only through many years of trial and error that I have developed any efficiency with the context menu - this is because the problem with context menu operations is that they require enough experience to recognize the context and remember what [hidden] commands will be revealed by a right-click.

The advantage of the ribbon is that context menus are made visible when the context is entered, thus allowing less experienced users explore options more easily. Also, the issue with traditional context menus is that they are a mixture of fixed elements [cut, copy, paste, properties] and context specific items [extract all].

Assuming the usage data is from Windows 7, the nonexistent usage of menu is probably largely because the menu is entirely hidden unless you know that hitting 'alt' brings it up. And that is a much newer hidden feature (Win7 era, maybe Vista with early signals in XP) than context menus (at least since Win95).

Besides touch-friendliness, ribbons have huge benefits in discoverability. People can't use features they don't know exist; ribbons organize features into browsable, meaningful panels so they can be found, related to each other, and used. The article seems to entirely miss this point.

Actually, I think you missed the point of the article instead. It never argued that having buttons for common functions is bad but instead that some of the most bizarre and rarely used functions, e.g. Invert Selection, are showing up in a major UI element targeted largely at novice users.

A lot of people have addressed a mistake in your reasoning (selective bias, only way to do things, etc...). Another point is that context menus aren't touch friendly. The ribbon works surprisingly well for touch.

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