Do we want a company cultures that operate based on biases and stereotypes? I don't. I also do not believe in collective punishment in order to improve society. The best thing we can do to society to remove biases and stereotypes is to encourage a culture of understanding, by seeing individuals as individuals rather than single bits information like skin color or gender identification. Be the change that society need to be, encourage others to do the same, and culture will slowly change in the same direction.
I have a lot to say about your views on this. First of all, I am not concerned about company cultures. There are way bigger concerns in life than company culture. And if that really matters to you and you don't like your company culture, go to a company you like.
Your phrasing of "collective punishment" is really telling. You seem to really focus on the hardship incurred by the candidates discounted a bit because they are historically privileged. I find it very easy not to dwell on the temporary misfortunes of well-qualified software engineers. They will be fine. It's not a big deal. I care much more about fixing the "collective punishment" that has been inflicted on certain groups for hundreds of years.
And to your point claiming you know how to fix these problems: I like what you advocate. I disagree that it will be sufficient. Nothing has worked. We need to try everything, because the problem is so hard. To me, what the OP describes is part of the price society has to pay for the ill-gotten gains we've enjoyed for hundreds of years. It's not a punishment, but it's like tech debt. We backed ourselves into a corner where things are so bad that the only feasible ways to address inequality among groups is hacky solutions like affirmative action. Nobody WANTS to do that. But the problem is just so old and stuck.
The phrase I am borrowing is from Carl Sagan, where he is using the even less charitable argument that discrimination is simply lazy thinking. Instead of evaluating an individual as a full person we reduce them down to single bit of information like gender and race. It is what people do when they are unwilling to do the thinking needed to actually see a person. The result is nothing less than evil, historically and present.
You might not care about culture, but those being hired usually do. A culture of discrimination is a culture of distrust. On HN we see with a fairly common regularity articles where once being happy to have joined a company under those circumstances, the diversity hire find themselves very unhappy and leaves. The experience can so bad that people quit the profession itself, or determine that the only functional work culture is a mono-culture and joins a company with only their gender or race.
Last, I have a rather strong warning against trying to solve the ills of the past with ills of the present. It is less than a century ago that a country in Europe decided to go after a demographic that held a historical strong position in mercantile and banking. Resenting a demographic based on what their grand and grandgrand, and grandgrandgrand parents did is a very dark place to be.
> Nothing has worked
We do know what works, it just people are unwilling to do it. The way to address class differences between demographic is to raise the social support. Gender segregation is effectively reduced through support programs like mentorships, which raises understanding and cooperation. It is hard work. What does not work in both cases is more discrimination.
But since you probably won't, your proclamation to fight racism is very hollow. You might just like to discriminate, projecting your anger or vanity on others.
The goal is to reach equality and you are in the way of it. There aren't any metrics that could satisfy the strive to "diversity" anyway.
> But I would encourage you to focus on the much more widespread similar feeling felt by those being helped up by such efforts.
We teach 4 year olds about the problems with compensatory justice, but you are revealing yourself with that comment. Worse, you try to compensate for different generations. People championing diversity call themselves progressive but at the same time espouse ethics from the 17th century. But here racism is primarily a you problem, not a society problem.
I also don't give a shit about making my page loads quicker. That's rarely what the world, or the business for that matter, needs.
What I'm talking about is the specific phenomenon of discriminating against a candidate based on their gender or race, and whether people think this is okay.
I'm concerned with the process of hiring software engineers because it's something I have to do daily, and have done for a very long time. I'm coming here to talk about it (rather than other social issues) because I think others here have experience in the same area.
And I will say, it is fine to broach these subjects. Your concerns are legitimate. I simply choose to take a much broader view of things and feel that until we get much closer to making the world more equal and righting past injustices, we should try and use as many tools we have to close the wealth gap between majority and minority groups.
You think you're helping correct society by helping one group over a perceived disadvantage, but all you are doing is enforcing a another kind of discrimination
You can't correct discrimination by discriminating back or tipping the scale one way or another, the only way to defeat discrimination is to throw away the scales.
Utopian societies are the motivation for all kinds of genocides.