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Comment by sudosysgen | Hacker News Reader

I'm sure it happens in the abstract. They're definitely not a shill though.

As far as we've seen China has no shill operation outside of its borders outside of bots and some vote manipulation by Chinese companies for profit.

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He may not be a paid shill, but he is not arguing from a position of sincerity. FooBarWidget is far too intelligent to actually believe half of what he's saying, especially his claim that 98% of Chinese citizens are happy with their government. That number is absurdly high.

For reference, trust in government is 84% in Switzerland (highest in the OECD), 65% in Germany, 46% in the US, 42% in Japan, 35% in the UK.

Even if the source of the claim is the WaPo, such an outlier deserves extreme scrutiny.

https://data.oecd.org/gga/trust-in-government.htm

Edit: Those conducting the survey probably experienced reactions similar to this: https://vimeo.com/44078865

I agree that 98% is too high, but 90% is not unreasonable. There is no country in the world off the top of my head where the quality of life has improved more than in China.

Additionally the Chinese government has a very skillful tactic where they make the local government much more accountable via the central government but charges it of all the unpopular things. That way it gets credit for the good while the local government is blamed for the bad. It's quite smart actually.

His data probably comes from this research : https://ash.harvard.edu/publications/understanding-ccp-resil...

The data comes from in-person interviews. One may think that they were scared of saying bad things but plenty of negative feedback was received, they just reported that most issues were solved and were happy with the progress.

I the conclusion of dishonesty was much too quick.

Obviously older, but Japan and South Korea have probably improved even more if we look since the end of WW2. I hadn't known until recently that South and North Korea were both similarly poor at the end of the Korean War.

Nah. Japan was well on its way to industry in WW2. SK improved a lot yes but still not as much as China and unlike China prospects are dim for a lot of people and politics is somehow even more of a mess. I think the average Chinese citizen is a lot happier with their government than a Korean one. Having a prime minister puppetted by a cult doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Yes that number is absurdly high. But it doesn't change the fact that I pulled it from the York University study https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/05/05/did-pande...

Do you know why I am angry and pushed to speak up so much about China lately? Because the reality on the ground turns out to be really different from mainsteam media depiction. For 25 years I have heard tropes like "Chinese people are oppressed" but when I did deeper research I found a very different picture. It's like watching my father (the west) defame my mother (China) for 25 years and then finding out that 90% of the accusations are distorted.

You don't have to agree with me but please don't claim that I am being insincere. It's up to me to decide whether I am sincere or not.

It isn't really a question of agreement or disagreement. In the PRC people are jailed for complaining too much, or complaining about the wrong thing. You can't have an accurate picture of what people think about the state in those circumstances, especially when this information is distributed solely by government-sanctioned and/or actively censored outlets. Like that joke Zizek tells sometimes:

"A German worker gets a job in Siberia; aware of how all mail will be read by censors, he tells his friends: “Let’s establish a code: if a letter you will get from me is written in ordinary blue ink, it is true; if it is written in red ink, it is false.” After a month, his friends get the first letter, written in blue ink: “Everything is wonderful here: stores are full, food is abundant, apartments are large and properly heated, movie theaters show films from the West, there are many beautiful girls ready for an affair—the only thing unavailable is red ink.”"

And I'm trying to say that "In the PRC people are jailed for complaining too much, or complaining about the wrong thing" is a mischaracterization at best, a complete falsehood at worst. I've found this to be the case after research.

But again, you don't have to believe me if you don't want to. Just don't claim I am insincere.

> And I'm trying to say that "In the PRC people are jailed for complaining too much, or complaining about the wrong thing" is a mischaracterization at best, a complete falsehood at worst. I've found this to be the case after research.

I had an apologist describe it to be once like "if you want to suggest improvements in local government, or you want to make a request, as long as you do it respectfully, then there is no problem at all", as if that is what free people mean when they talk of complaint.

We've all had a nice refresher about what happens in China if you complain, about a sexual assault for example. For the sake of "social stability", of course.

You're just going in circles. Chinese people don't believe she has ever been in danger, and they believe Zhang will be dealt with.

Let's see who's right in a few years from now. Maybe she'll be vacationing in Europe like Jack Ma is today while Zhang received a punishment.

Yeah, with her family safe and sound under the watchful eye of the CCP. But hey, what's a little "disappearance" between friends, or family.

I have personally noted a large quantity of CCP propaganda turning up on other social media. Voted up unusually high, unusually early, and by accounts that regularly wind up banned by the admins. As a normal user it can be hard to differentiate real shill accounts from motivated nationalists and/or supremacists, but it's absurd to say this sort of thing isn't likely going on, certainly not to claim any absolute knowledge of the subject.

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