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Comment by webmobdev | Hacker News Reader

Excellent news - the timing is right ...

The largest farmer's protest in the world, in India, just recently partially ended after a year+ long non-violent protest with the indian government backing down and conceding to their demand to repeal farm laws that favoured corporates and didn't address farmer's concerns. ( https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/opinion/fam-laws-are-bei... ). Civil activists around the world will get a big boost and draw inspiration from this.

Trade Unions in Public Sector Units that the indian government wants to sell to private entities are also planning to go on a national strike soon.

I see all this as a natural correction of political imbalance that had shifted too far to the right, around the world, in the last 2 decades ... political unrest results when the extreme left or the right gain an upper hand.

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As someone who interned at two Indian government PSUs, I can't wait for them to get privatised. You wouldn't believe the amount of inefficiency and laziness.

> the reforms were good

Please read the article I linked to, to understand why the farmer's objected to these farm laws. The biggest problem was that democratic and parliamentary norms were not followed in passing those laws. Can you believe that a game changing law like this, was passed abruptly, without any review by any parliamentary committee or even a discussion in the Parliament!? That is why people became rightly suspicious of the intentions behind the laws, and highlighted loopholes in it that seemed to be designed to benefit the corporate, at the expense of farmers and consumers.

> laziness

That seems quite judgemental, each time that I see someone calling others lazy is just a case of not understanding others circumstances and hardships. Walk a mile in their shoes...

I mean interning at something seems as close to walking a mile in the shoes as one can reasonably be expected to get. Often when we condemn others or something it is because we don't understand all the factors involved, but not all the time - sometimes laziness and other bad features are primary cause of what we observe.

My dad spent his entire life as a Bureaucrat. The OP is right.

The laziness is endemic seeps through every aspect of Govt. work. He hates the laziness and corruption in the system so much, that explicitly banned both his children from ever working in anything having to do with the Govt.

A good bunch of my friends are engineers in large govt. infrastructure projects. They corroborate my dad's claims.

> Walk a mile in their shoes

Replying in kind, got it 'straight from the horse's mouth' (sorry, i was feeling cheeky)

That is an incredibly biased reading.

The farm laws were among the most progressive changes the farms had seen in the last century. It was politically hijacked despite having been previously supported by the same opposition who was currently leading the agitation.

India is politically incredibly left as a nation, and IMO the right simply isn't right enough. If India can even reach a Bernie or Warren level.of capitalism, it would be a dream come true.

Sadly, we are stuck in a system that glorifies blind socialism despite it having continuously kneecapped the economy decade over decade.

I hope the PSUs get sold off. The farm bills pass (wishful thinking) and India finally manages to claw back some power from this kafkaesque beaurocracy.

What I find strange is the support that the Indian (opportunistic) left's narrative gets in US media including niche tech communities like HN. Any one who has grown up in India in the past 50 years has witnessed the devastation caused by Socialism in this country. Socialism did not make India equal - it made India's bureaucracy and politics a cesspool of corruption that did enormous damage to India's poor. Anybody on this community who wants a crisp, fair view of the situation should spend a minute reading this editorial from India's largest newspaper before commenting: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/news/swa...

> It was politically hijacked despite having been previously supported by the same opposition who was currently leading the agitation.

That's either ignorance or a plain lie. Rahul Gandhi, one of the leaders of Congress, has been a vocal opponent of the farm laws from day 1. Here's his speech in Parliament on it - https://old.reddit.com/r/india/comments/li5iey/rahul_gandhis... ... At no point has the opposition Congress ever supported the law.

In fact, it was never even given an opportunity to do so!

This law was suddenly introduced as an ordinance, and bludgeoned through Parliament with the sheer majority of the government, without even a discussion in Parliament. Despite requests, it was not even sent to any Parliamentary committees. Worse, the government hadn't even consulted anyone, and the law had a lot of glaringly loopholes for the obvious benefit of the corporate sector.

A agree completely with you that reforms are much needed in India's agriculture sector. And PM Modi could have easily implemented many of them if he had just followed democratic process and consulted everyone. The farm laws passed by him was sloppy too - many parts of these law were bound to be overturned by the Supreme Court too, as it infringed on the rights of states in our federal setup.

> That's either ignorance or a plain lie

Ooh, boy. I had an incredibly long post with all the links to support my claim. Sadly, I am struggling to find it.

In the meantime, here is another comment I found, that makes the same points (just unsourced for now).

    Every economic survey since 2011 said we need these laws. InterMinisterial Task Force during Vajpayee, Manmohan and Modi Sarkaars said we need these laws. 
    
    Multiple Dept of Agriculture & Farmer Welfare reports said we need these laws.

    BKU leader said we need these laws. Today protesting BKU won’t accept that guy mediating. 2008 BKU protested FOR these reforms. 

    Most of the Farmers outside of Punjab/Haryana said we need these laws and support these laws. 

    PM Dr. Manmohan Singh, the best Finance Minister India has had, tried to implement these laws.

    CPIM said we need these laws n got rid of APMC in Kerala. Congress said we needed these laws n put it in their 2019 manifesto.

For now, I can lay my reputation on the line and assure you that I have a fully sourced comment somewhere that makes these exact point. I will try to find it by tonight, and comment under here. (remind me if I forget)

I added all the links, and then HN failed to update the comments. SMH.

So as a next least-worst thing, I am linking to a right wing article, so don't call me out on that. But, do look at the links in there. The points themselves stand on their own and are well supported from primary sources.

https://dynastycrooks.wordpress.com/2020/12/03/all-the-hypoc...

It's ok without sources because you are now talking about something different entirely. (And it doesn't support your assertion). Your claim was that: It was politically hijacked despite having been previously supported by the same opposition who was currently leading the agitation.

That is an absolutely misleading (and ignorant) statement because the opposition were against the farm laws because of:

1. The shoddy laws (with glaring loopholes) that the govt. claimed was "reforms". 2. The manner in which the laws was passed. 3. The unconstitutional parts of the laws.

What you have highlighted are all the preliminary preparations that go before the process of law making even starts. This is the respective governments - NDA or UPA - considering how to make policies based on their political ideology and ground realities (as they see it). Just because the NDA or UPA agreed that reforms are needed doesn't mean they were in agreement on how these reforms need to be.

If the government had bothered to consult the opposition, and other parties that would be impacted by these laws, a good law could have been created. Instead, the law was created in secret, was made a law immediately by introducing it as an ordinance bypassing the Parliament initially, and then rushed through Parliament with the brute majority of the government without even allowing a debate.

Something like 40% of Indians work in farming. Compare that to, say, the US at 1%.

There is probably a nicer way to say it, but the strategic priority of India should factor in the end of small-time farmers. There are a lot of people working in agriculture who need to be redeployed to something more productive. Unless the plan is to live in poverty forever.

That's absurd, food is the most important product of the economy. Local food is the most important product of a local economy. Many small farm holders means more variety and less monoculture. I grow food myself, it's hard work and very important for our futures.

Link in profile.

And go where? To other minimum wage jobs that pay 22 rupees an hour (35 cents an hour)? Most labor is relatively worthless in India. This is because India suffers from The Tragedy of the Commons.

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