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Comment by ianl | Hacker News Reader

I think you are all missing the point. There already is a massive market for high end gaming pcs and laptops. Compare these prices and specs to what is available from Alienware or MSI.

This laptop only misgiving is the fact it does not have an SSD. However, it is competitively priced in comparison to its competition and with a sleek sexy design this is a very interesting entry into the market.

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There is no way this laptop is competitively priced with Alienware and MSI. For about $1200 you can get an Alienware with the same GPU(which accounts for 90 percent of your framerate). For under 1500 you can get an MSI or Asus laptop with a GTX 560M which is significantly better than the GT 555M. If you actually wanted a high-end gaming system you could go all out and get a M18X Alienware with dual 6990M GPUs. Just so we can rule this out as a gaming computer once and for all, here is a performance comparison.

$2880 Razer "gaming" computer - GT 555M Bad Company 2 Ultra Settings - 17-20 FPS $1799 Alienware M17X with single 6990M - Bad Company 2 Ultra Settings - 57-59 FPS $2499 Alienware M18X with dual 6990Ms - Bad Company 2 Ultra Settings - 110 FPS

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Comparison-of-Laptop-Graphics-C...

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-6990M-Crossfire.5...

So price/performance wise, the Razer laptop offers about $550 worth of gaming performance, but it is lighter and also has a $2200 dollar trackpad that no one in their right mind would use to play a real video game.

Owning one of those Alienware M15X Laptops, I can say that they are heavy and bulky. The form factor of this new laptop is a lot better, and would make a huge impact on my desire to buy it if I actually want to take it anywhere.

Hell, I about broke my back trying to lug my Alienware around a conference. I'll never do that again. I'd pay quite a bit for the ability to actually have my notebook computer be portable, and yet still able to play games.

I agree that gaming laptops are a huge pain to carry around, but Razer's system is outrageously expensive for what you get. You could still save hundreds of dollars by purchasing a normal laptop for 300-500 to take to the office and then buy an Alienware or Clevo with a 6990M in it for about 1500-1800. If you decide to buy a desktop instead of the Alienware, you can save another 1k. If one is happy with a GT 555M's performance, you can find a 5.5 lb laptop for about 700-800 dollars which has the same card and the same CPU.

"CPU... GPU..." who cares? The laptop is composed of a shell, battery, keyboard and the most importantly - the LCD. Nowhere in your post you mentioned the quality of those 4 critical difference-making components. Comparing computers based on irrelevant commodity (chips) is like comparing automobiles by how many wheels they have.

Gamers care. The Macbook Air got away with not having normal things inside it because everyone knew it was for looks alone. This thing is being marketed as a gaming rig, which necessarily means you have to care about what's inside.

Nice subtle snark.

There might not be a lot of power in the Air but there is a market. Specifically, for people where mobility is more important than power, but able to get actual work done.

I bought one when I was hauling around my ThinkPad to school, work, coffeeshops, and everywhere else around the city. Since I didn't have a car, it meant it was one my shoulders the whole time. I considered getting a netbook, but after using a friend's for a little while, I realized it wasn't going to work (tiny keyboard, not enough power.)

The Air, on the other hand, has a full-size keyboard. I don't remember what the processor is, but it was more powerful than an Atom. RAM was short but you can survive.

I used it for primarily writing my thesis, making presentations, coding in TextMate, and work in Matlab. I didn't need power, and I definitely didn't want weight. That was lighter and easier to hold than a textbook, and could actually perform the duties I needed to.

So, regardless of what you'd like to think, there is a market for them outside of people who want shiny things.

The Air is actually really well done. It's a Core i5/i7 (current top of the line), 4GB of RAM, and with a new Intel HD3000 graphics chip, which is able to play TF2 full screen at a usable framerate. I've never used another laptop with embedded graphics that could do that. It's not 'Crysis' good, but it's damn good for a cheap little laptop (especially compared to this Razer monster).

bang on.. I've got an air and I play tf2 on it. It's sweet!

Just to add a small correction - the air does not have 'top of the line' i5 or i7 processors. Rather, they use a slower, dual-core mobility model. I'd also argue that it is 'cheap' - but that's more of a relative point. :)

The Core i5/i7 line of CPUs is currently the top of the line. Of course it uses the 'mobility' model, but it's still the current top of the line.

$1199 ($50/100 off if you're a student) as configured. Show me another laptop with it's form factor and capabilities for that price? Hell, show me another laptop with it's form factor and capabilities?

$1000 for some so convenient is a STEAL, especially if you actually make money using it.

Because they chopped the amount of cores in half and neutered the speed, it is not a top of the line CPU, even if it is called an i7.

That being said, in my opinion no other ultra-portable comes close to the Macbook Air. If I could justify having two laptops I would be ordering one right now instead of typing this.

What mobile CPU is higher end than the mobility core i7?

No... comparing "gaming PCs" by their internal components is like comparing automobiles by their engines and handling. Which is to say, perfect apt.

But there are still a huge variety of "sports cars", including $200k cars that could be trounced by a $45k Suburu.

Please allow me to address the "4 critical-difference-making components."

1- Shell - I love the idea of having a gaming laptop with apple's build quality, but its hard to fit a decent GPU and cooling system in such a slim, stylish case. Gamers know this and are generally willing to compromise. While I hate the way alienware computers look, many reviewers gush about their excellent build quality.

2.-Battery - High-end GPUs use a lot of power. Unfortunately, current technology only allows for the battery to act as a glorified UPS. This is unfortunate but anyone who is purchasing a gaming computer should understand the limitations of such hardware.

3.-The keyboard is very important. Alienware keyboards aren't the very best keyboards, but they are better than the overwhelming majority. On the other hand the Razer has a "chiclet" keyboard which is considered by many to be inferior to traditional laptop keyboards.

4.-The LCD - If you purchased a gaming computer, would you rather play a game at 17 FPS on a beautiful screen or play the same game at 60 FPS on a computer possessing a marginally worse panel.

When you are talking about a gaming computer, the GPU is pretty much the only thing that matters. If you want battery power, a nice shell, and a nice LCD you can get a SAMSUNG laptop with the same specs as the Razer for 2k cheaper.

#4 is a bit disingenuous no? There is a ridiculous gap between the shittiest laptop panels and the best ones. The difference is anything but "marginal".

If I'm going to push 60fps in Crysis 2 on a laptop I want good screen contrast, proper color rendition, proper brightness, no light leaks from the edges, etc. What is the point of the world's most powerful mobile GPU if it feels like I'm looking at the game world through a bad Photoshop filter?

Buying and owning a gaming laptop or desktop is similar to owning a hot rod.

There are as many different philosophies to how and what to buy as there are gamers. On one end of the spectrum people track pricing trends and chase the best possible value/performance and build it all themselves. On the other end people pay a premium for an innovative case or component or a name brand. This is clearly on the far end of the spectrum, including the expected premium price to get anything Razer.

In the end it's purely for the sport of it. You are right that there are better deals. But there is definitely a segment of people that are more than willing to pay a premium to get an awesome case with a ultra new innovative component like this. Bring a laptop like this to a gaming night at a local coop and everyone will be oogling it and checking it out... That's what it's all about.

Exactly.

And this is the first one. If this succeeds with the high end people (you know those that spend $4000 on a gaming pc), then the price will come down.

This is the best thing I've seen in long time.

Some people use expensive hardware as a status symbol, and having something expensive with a flashy UI will probably appeal to them. I don't know how common this type of person is.

Others spend a lot on hardware to eke out as much performance as possible. The Razer laptop will fail miserably with these people, because the specs obtained for the cost are abyssmal.

________________________________________________

Razer at $2800:

2.8GHz Intel® CoreTM i7 2640M Processor

8GB 1333MHz DDR3 Memory

NVIDIA GeForce® GT 555M (2GB VRAM)

________________________________________________

Sager/Clevo at around $2700 (using xoticpc).

3.2-3.46GHz Intel® Core™ i7-960 8MB L3 Cache

ATI Radeon DUAL (2) HD6990M's (4GB VRAM)

12GB - DDR3 1333MHz Dual Channel Memory

________________________________________________

The GT 555M's 3DMark 06 score is 10586.3. The Dual HD6690M has a score of 23292, more than double. I would have honestly expected at least a single GTX 570M (preferably 580) from a cutting-edge gaming laptop housing an NVIDIA card.

The Sager will be a bulkier laptop, but my experience (with dragging an Asus G73 to and from university and work) is that carrying bags/backpacks mitigate the weight issue, and that bulk is never a factor. An inferior gaming experience due to weaker hardware, however, is.

Sources:

http://xoticpc.com (for configuring/pricing a Sager/Clevo laptop)

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark... (for video card benchmarks)

I think Google should invest in this thing. Include an SSD, and leverage the unique UI elements for Chrome OS. In this case, it wouldn't be just for gaming. Instead it would be a powerful and compelling alternative to the iPad for the end-user browse/email/word process crowd. If it's also a killer platform for MMOs and casual games, then it would have a powerful draw for college students.

> I think Google should invest in this thing. Include an SSD, and leverage the unique UI elements for Chrome OS. In this case, it wouldn't be just for gaming. Instead it would be a powerful and compelling alternative to the iPad for the end-user browse/email/word process crowd.

At more than five times the price? I'm not so sure.

At five times the price, no. But if Google put muscle behind it, they might get some economies of scale going.

For $2800 it had better have an SSD. Compared with a 320GB HDD, a 256GB SSD would only add $2-300 to the price of the laptop.

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