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Comment by ooer | Hacker News Reader

And it's fine for Chinese people to get their speech censored?

To be fair that is none of our business.

Every government decided these things by themselves.

Cool. So by your logic, USA should not impose its view of "modern" "democracy" to other countries. Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, or even Iran.

Why does USA care if Iran assaults its citizens for whatever reason?

No, it should not. The USA imposing "democracy" by dropping bombs on civilians is part of the reason the region is unstable.

Unironically agree. Haven't we forgot the morbid situation in contemporary Libya? Along with buyer's remorse on Arab Spring?

gaddafi was removed from office and killed for refusing to trade in US dollar instead of his demand for physical gold. yeah

When human rights are denied anywhere, it is the business of people everywhere.

States exist to protect human rights and states that don’t have no right to exist.

Human rights are made up. What might be considered a human right to you may not be considered a human right to the Chinese government.

You should be more open minded that different people and cultures have different values.

Wow...

Do you think women shouldn't have rights too, if a country's government doesn't think they are worthy?

That we shouldn't care about the treatment of migrant workers in the Middle East?

Apartheid was fine? Slavery?

I mean, as long as the country's government thinks so, and the "cultural values are different".

It's honestly disheartening to read a comment such as yours here.

Wow... GP said that human rights are made up and not that he thinks that people shouldn't have any rights, made up or not.

Please read my comment in context to what I was responding to. The person who I was responding to said essentially "If a government doesn't follow my values it should be dissolved."

> Human rights are made up

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on HN.

I agree with GP that human rights are made up but would love to hear why and how you think they aren't. That would be a far better read than this pointless post that doesn't contribute anything to discussion.

It's a human idea and a human invention, developed in a certain historical context. Calling it "made up" is pejorative, for sure, but not at all wrong.

It isn't like the Hubble Deep Field has a pattern that spells out "all human beings are born free and equal" or something.

If you asked me what human rights I have I couldn't tell you. Do I pick stuff from the bill of rights, do I pick stuff from my religion? How do I know what rights I have?

>You should be more open minded that different people and cultures have different values.

So I can start owning slaves, if I claim it fits my values? Or I need to gather some minimal number of fellow slave owners, so I can declare it 'culture'?

That is a more extreme example so by it will make what I say sound more extreme.

>So I can start owning slaves, if I claim it fits my values?

Keep in mind that owning a slave is illegal in many places. Laws are also shaped by culture. So if you moved somewhere were slaves were legal then yes you could.

Did you write that?! great turn of phrase though in my brain i needed a comma to place pause, even if not technically correct (lol)

I did. An advantage of Toastmasters is that you start to learn to craft such phrases because they make excellent point in speeches.

A disadvantage is that you put in commas and -- for pause, not for correct grammar.

Nice! I am a big fan of the emphasis comma ;)

This is the kind of stupid, racist mindset that has allowed the majority of world governments to be corrupt and abusive. All monopolies need extreme measures to not suck as much, and the Chinese gov being shitty to their citizens will lower your own leverage against your government. (It’s not like the authoritarian trend is not already visibly global.)

They can do whatever they want because...?

I think that the US played World Police enough already.

As a matter of fact, I think so too! But my question is about why do all governments, including the US gov, have the right to do that to their citizens?

American power lead to a reduction in wars believe it or not. There would have been a lot more death and destruction, even with the mistakes America has made, than had there been this current inward looking naval gazing America. When Chinese power controls the world you’ll realise just how good we all had it.

Wat?

America starting lots of wars save the world from lots more wars because China (which has started 0 wars) will start many more wars?

That’s some serious mental gymnastics.

Not really, I think China would have invaded Taiwan at least by now and would be threatening Japan and South Korea but for American power in the region. Why do you think there’s been peace in Europe for so long?

Because NATO and the EU.

Well if the US hadn’t have got involved at all. There probably wouldn’t be a communist China, and Taiwan would be threatening to invade mainland Japan.

But everything you say is just massive speculation…

You are confusing something. Are you talking about the country that started nearly any war in the recent past, failed to win or loose it and just stretched it out for years while killing thousands of civils for the good? The same country that somehow managed to break the Geneva convention regularly, especially with things like Guantanamo and have no excuse at all? All in the name of spreading democracy, something they not manage to actually implement themselves?

From my POV America is the one country we need to be most afraid of. Mostly because their irrational, war driven, and human rights ignoring behaviour all around the world. Not just in their country

I agree with you but why not fear both the USA and China? :D

Not like there's only threat in the world.

So what? USA can punish CCP by boycott it, crash its economy and HOPE that Chinese People will overthrown CCP.

Guess who will suffer the most, yes the Chinese people

And you westerners celebrate “freedom of speech” without paying any cost.

Really, stay away from our internal business. USA has a tracked record of screwing things up by imposing democracy prematurely

The main problem is that there's a self-governing, democratic nation of 23 million people nearby that the CCP regularly threatens to invade. We've grown rather fond of those people and do a lot of mutually beneficial trade with them.

As long as the CCP threatens other nations, it isn't "internal business".

The ROC(Taiwan)/PRC(China) issue is so much more complicated than "CCP regularly threatens to invade".

When did CCP threaten to invade? I guaranteed you all those countries benefit a lot more from a healthy China

You are speaking for all mainland Chinese? Ok, well, let me speak for all Australians affected negatively by the b/s extra 'taxes'/trade restrictions/etc put in place by the Chinese government... because they didn't like some things that were said about them?

The OP is speaking for all the Chinese people in the first place

The USA? Who cares? I'm just speaking out about a civil liberty and you assume that I represent the whole government that uses that liberty as an excuse to play politics. Unlike the CCP members (or their wannabes) I don't base my identity and beliefs around my government and what it does.

You are not the real owner of the country - regardless of what illusion you have. Your government is not either. The big Corp and capital is the REAL owner and they grab you by the balls.

>So what? USA can punish CCP by boycott it,

>Really, stay away from our internal business

Staying away from your business is literally what a boycott is.

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