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Comment by simmanian | Hacker News Reader

Does anyone know where I can see the latest developments on web 3.0 without most of the tulip mania? It takes so much effort to filter out blog articles and youtube videos on why <insert name> is going to be the next big thing when I just want to see the current state of things.

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If you want a programmer/documentation approach then GitHub and developer forums are where you will get the best shill free discussion, read the eips/ercs on github and the eth cat herders forum.

https://eips.ethereum.org/

https://ethereumcatherders.com/

Play with the tools like https://eth-brownie.readthedocs.io/en/stable/

https://hardhat.org/

https://www.cairo-lang.org/docs/hello_starknet/index.html

Note these are eth focused, but there is overlap with zcash/cosmos/polkadot and the many evm chains that now exist.

I’d also recommend: https://gov.yearn.finance/ and https://forum.makerdao.com/ for insight into how protocols are managed.

Don't forget about the OG Ethereum framework: https://trufflesuite.com :-)

I heard that truffle is a little outdated unfortunately, and doesn't add much value nowadays over hardhat.

Do any frameworks add essential components over bare web3js?

Truffle gives you a local Blockchain to develop on. Web3js gives you a way to interact with a Blockchain.

The two coolest things about truffle, IMO, is the debugger, which lets you debug/step through past transactions, even ones on mainnet, and the --dry-run feature, which lets you run your deployment against a local copy of a real network, without syncing the whole blockchain.

Both those features lean heavily on the work I do on Ganache, an Ethereum simulator that has all sorts of nice development features that a public node doesn't.

ganache is the standard, thanks for building ;)

1. we're starting to see the emergence of next-gen managed crypto cloud, so one can just start building on alchemy free tier for example, i can still use truffle in my dev env, but i can also just roll the functionality i need natively to the cloud

2. solidity packs a lot of fintech logic in a concise amount of code. an experimental auction dapp came in at like 150 lines. i'm not exactly building Compound here (yet)!

There isn't one - because they have been around, quietly, growing. Check sneakernet ideas, like Scuttlebutt ( https://scuttlebutt.nz/get-started/ ), p2p networks, like dat:// and ipfs://, retroshare, and so on.

Whatever you'll find under the web3 banner is, unfortunately, complete garbage.

See also: internet reclamation projects [1]

[1]: https://drewdevault.com/2021/09/23/Nitter-and-other-internet...

Twitter is very good for this, but you must follow the builders. Wholly agreed, there is too much trash if you just search for crypto. I'd recommend finding the founders and devs of a crypto organization or protocol you find interesting and follow along.

Some high signal ones are @Bantg from Yearn Finance, @gakonst from Paradigm, @epolynya for Modular Blockchain info, @iamDCinvestor for macro view and NFTs.

You can find a lot more good ones by seeing these individuals replies. And if you like, you can follow me as well @_nd_go, I try to keep my feed fairly high signal

Consider diving into tulip land (without any major investments of course). Mint an NFT, write a coin contract, it's actually a very fun and easy way to learn the basics of web3.

Fun way to waste your time.

Well we ARE programmers. We build invisible castles in the sky.

What a weirdly aggressive and unnecessary comment. Web3 has some pretty cool parts and there's definitely a new programming paradigm at work. Even out of curiosity, you should give it a try. Distributed computing is pretty interesting, and even more-so when there's a code complexity resource you need to optimize for (gas).

idk it's not untrue. So far my time investment in distributed ledgers hasn't done a damn thing for anybody, but it has been fun (in a 'playing with your food' way, as someone said downthread). I suspect many here have had a similar experience.

Distributed computing is an entire field of study unrelated to blockchains.

> Distributed computing is an entire field of study unrelated to blockchains.

I'm not sure if you're just being purposefully obtuse, but this is most definitely not true[1]. Consensus protocols (which are very salient in blockchains) have been studied in distributed computing since like the 70s; the EVM is basically a distributed Turing machine; etc.

[1] https://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2019/2/234355-blockchains-fro...

What? Your comments support my point, they don't refute it. Blockchains are a (naive) application of distributed computing principles, not the foundation of them...

> Blockchains are a (naive) application of distributed computing principles, not the foundation of them...

I think you're arguing against a straw man here, nowhere did I claim the blockchain is foundational to distributed computing...

Don't think it's fair to call them a naive application of distributed computing principles if you look at the current research output in the area. Subset yes, but let's not underplay the genuine output on distributed and decentralized consensus and governance that's coming out of the area.

I'm deeply connected to the space. Blockchain folks have made some progress in the area of BFT specifically, but beyond that, no, it's mostly been naïve re-hashes of work already done in the 80s and 90s. This isn't necessarily bad, but it's absolutely not novel.

You claimed distributed computing was unrelated to blockchain. Now you're saying the relationship is one thing and not another, but you're admitting a relationship all the same.

I replied to

> Distributed computing is pretty interesting, and even more-so when there's a code complexity resource you need to optimize for (gas).

I thought this implied an equivocation between distributed computing and web3 stuff. If that wasn't the intent, mea culpa, sorry.

> Distributed computing ... when there's a code complexity resource you need to optimize for

That's not fun. That's work. From TFA:

> Remember: The DAO — first of its kind, from which all present DAOs take their name — failed so badly it required a fork of the Ethereum blockchain.

You don't want to be stuck holding the bag on something like that.

we fail and fail and fail again. then we succeed.

feels crazy i have to say this on HN. this place has really changed over the years. what happened to the whole earth quotes.

"fail fast fail often"

at least Stuart Brand is still daring to explore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLGZdLpHl1w

Hi, please out of curiosity give a try joining my pyramid scheme

I have some really expensive JPEGs I need to unload

Didn't think I would see a comment like this on Hacker News. Learning and experimenting is fun! When you are learning and having fun, there is no such thing as "wasting time".

Some would consider learning a old, outdated programming language a waste of time, but sometimes learning something new just to learn something new is just... Fun!

ratio then?

Vitalik Buterin's blog often talks about developments in tokenomics and governance, including the game theory behind it and new projects that are implementing it.

Vitalik is one of the best people to follow in the space because he generally ignores a lot of the hype and focuses on way decentralization can change (and improve) the world. While there is a lot of value in defi, by its nature it attracts users and builders to the space for the wrong reasons (and in some ways taints the general perception of what blockchain tech is capable of)

If anyone is interested in the decentralized web without the ponzi-like elements (I say ponzi-like though I should reiterate again that I think defi has value), I'd recommend this talk by Vitalik, "Things that matter outside of defi": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLsb7clrXMQ

Internet computer [1] went online recently. There are a bunch of apps already developed by the community on its version of smart contracts [2]. Some examples:

- dscvr.one

- oc.app

- distrikt.io

Disclosure: I work at DFINITY.

[1] https://internetcomputer.org/

[2] https://smartcontracts.org/

My colleagues and I write about this now and then for Naavik: https://twitter.com/larsiusprime/status/1459191090100244483

Sufficiently non-tulipy?

Great thread, particularly the part on "land" in games. I've always found it a little off putting that so many cryptocurrency projects essentially advertise themselves by promising that early adopters will become landed gentry.

Also, I read the Transitional Gains Trap paper a few years ago and really liked it, but forgot the name and couldn't find it again, so you helped me find it again, thanks!

Yeah I learned about it literally the day I posted that; it's a great little concept to pack in my mental toolbox.

I posted a similar question to HN the other day and got some great info (thanks to everyone who contributed!). Check it out:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29139813

Doesn't exist. It's all tulip mania.

GitHub! It's all open source. EIPs are Ethereum Improvement Proposals. You can view them all here: https://github.com/ethereum/EIPs/issues

Ethereum Foundation blog is a good read on technical detail with no price discussion: https://blog.ethereum.org/

Why are they using GitHub, a closed-source, traditional, centralized code hosting platform?

Can't they use something "web3" even for this basic task of hosting a git repository (remembering that git itself is completely de-centralized)?

While transfers have been "solved" in the cryptocurrency world (see Bitcoin et al), and likewise "computation" has been "solved" (see Ethereum et al), file storage is still not solved and seems to be a bit harder as it's taking time for the various solutions to mature enough to be useful for day to day usage.

I think it's kind-of-solved with IPFS and integrating IPFS hashes into the blockchain.

No, if you think so I don't think you properly understand IPFS. IPFS suffers the same problem as HTTP, content disappears when people stop serving it. Yes, it's easier to make sure it's online as it's content-addressed, but content still disappears. Filecoin is supposed to solve that particular problem, but seems to have trouble maturing right now as it's not mainstream yet to use, or maybe it solves the wrong problem/solves the right problem with the wrong solution.

i know you are being snarky, but still, people are working on it https://radicle.xyz/

Why do you think that I am being snarky? I thought it was the very first question anyone would ask?! If you can't even do this basic thing that only devs would use (hence I assume it to be a much easier first target to get working as they are technical and can jump through hoops if necessary), then I imagine there's very few things you can make work, currently?

That said, it's nice to see there's some serious work going into this new stuff... driven by a non-profit foundation https://radicle.foundation/ , that does make me take it more seriously, I will check it out.

The answer is that decentralization is in many ways considered a spectrum. We're a long ways away from being able to interact with web3 with no centralized points. As an example, you're reliant on your ISP, DNS, and the web of trust (involving tiers of certificate authorities) to even connect to a web3-enabled site from your browser. The most popular wallet for interacting with smart contracts in the browser is source-available, but not open source.

Of course, any interactions with the blockchain directly (calling methods of deployed smart contracts, or transferring tokens), are decentralized, but if you want to verify the source code of the contract you're interacting with, the most convenient way again involves relying on a centralized service (etherscan or similar for other blockchains), while the decentralized way would involve downloading the contract source yourself, compiling it, and comparing that with what's on the blockchain.

Follow Lefteris on Twitter https://twitter.com/lefterisjp?s=21

Then look for people with .ETH to their name. A lot of them are technical and Ethereum Foundation members.

Try Bankless https://banklesshq.com/

... but go in knowing it is going to be a breathless hype-fest

just signed up here and already unsubscribed. way too kool-aid.

Bankless is almost exclusively just about ads to pump their own bags with little objectivity, though I guess they occasionally will have more knowledgeable guests who themselves might provide useful information. Either way, last place to go if you want to avoid the hype.

> without most of the tulip mania

One only have to look at that website to realize it's the opposite of what simmanian is asking for.

> Each week you get...

> A rundown of opportunities

> A new crypto tactic to learn

> A new strategy to consider

> A recap with an action list

Absolutely zero focus on technical details...

Any zero knowledge / zksnarks communities are usually noise-free I found.

I just came across CoinSutra in which the article I read about Lido seemed very level headed and refreshing.

Otherwise I generally read CoinTelegraph but it can get very bullish at times.

It's very vast field, and by the day there is new stuff happening.

I'm in 2 months now and only scratched the surface.

In the Developer DAO (which is in founding) we currently plan to make all these web3 learning resources more accessible.

But right now, you can look here for resources: https://github.com/Developer-DAO/resources

You plan to make learning resources more accessible by gating them behind a limited supply NFT? Interesting.

While many of the members are just starting their journey, the NFTs are more of an incentivization for the creators of learning resources, I think.

The resources themselves, when created, should reach as many people as possible.

Noble goal, but I really don't understand what advantage you gain from selecting contributors with NFTs.

To be honest, I hope it fails. Developer communities are one of the very few places in crypto that aren't totally infested by Ponzi grifters and where you can find honest conversation, so I wasn't exactly thrilled when I saw this pop up. We don't need more wonky centrally-managed incentives. Incentives can be harmful. It most often reduces to a simple Ponzi.

To me it seemed that the incentives are used to make decentralization more secure in the future, but let's see how that goes.

It feels like a refreshing alternative to the run of the mill VC/startup model.

You'll make your money and in a year or two you'll turn cynic. That's always how it goes with the smart people in this field. Enjoy the trip.

Money and cynic?

I would have expected OR instead of AND. :)

I'm quite happy being a cynic in the field. Helps projects I work on stay measured. Not everyone in the web3/blockchain space is money oriented, some are interested in the technical stuff that's hard to find as easily in other fields.

Get rich quick by writing get-rich-quick books

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