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Comment by PragmaticPulp | Hacker News Reader

> Why do you think that? All the numbers work out. Even in your hypothetical scenario, investing 100k for 7 years, especially in the last 7 years, would easily bring you 1M total investments.

My point was that to show that the only way to get this to work out was to make everything work out perfectly, from getting the authors highest quoted day rate of $1000/day on every single day of every single contract from the start. You’d also have to live an aggressively non-wealthy lifestyle without any room for things like travel, hobbies, or luxuries.

So yes, technically it can work out if the stars align, you can always get those high-paying contracts without fail, and you’re willing to live an aggressively frugal lifestyle taken to an extreme.

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What are those expensive hobbies and luxuries? My hobbies cost about zero (making music, doing the occasional woodworking, reading, walking).

Travel can be expensive but it can also be quite cheap and is very dispensable.

Luxuries outside of travel (expensive hotels), I don't even know what they are.

I'm sure it's not hard to spend as much money as you want on many different things; but you make it sound as if it was necessary. It really isn't.

There are many moderately expensive hobbies that are pretty mainstream: downhill skiing, scuba diving, even "cheap" activities like hiking that involve travel to many places where you can do those activities. And many others buy equipment for their hobbies that they don't strictly need but they get pleasure from. Eating at decent restaurants on a regular basis adds up as do theater tickets. Even just having work done on a house rather than doing most of it yourself.

Very little of this is strictly necessary but many people do spend money on this sort of thing without conspicuous consumption being involved. Mostly paying only for what you have to pay for is pretty much the definition of a very frugal lifestyle.

Not saying this as a personal attack but your comment comes off as incredibly out of touch. Downhill skiing and scuba diving may be somewhat mainstream compared to something like lounging on a private island, but they're not that common. Most Americans probably go their whole lives without ever skiing or scuba diving. And to posit these as regular, everyday activities is also unrealistic. Scuba diving or skiing are things that require travel and buying or renting gear, if not paying for training as well. That's not a 'hobby' for most people, it's equivalent to a big luxury like going on vacation.

Those were just 2 things I do/did at various times that popped into my head (and they're probably not the best examples). Or pick hunting, fishing, golf, tennis, or even driving somewhere regularly on weekends to camp or hike.

None of these are necessities but quite a few people do them semi-regularly and while some of these activities can be cheaper than others, they have costs--and, to the point I was perhaps poorly making, they're activities that a lot of people would hate to give up in the interest of frugality.

Of course, many things can also be done on a relative shoestring so long as they don't involve long distance travel/hotels. On the other hand, a lot of people like spending money on their hobbies, even if not strictly required.

WOODWORKING costs $0?!?!?! What???

How much have you spent on tools? Do you smoke a pipe and whittle on the front porch or something? You don't visit Rockler and buy tons of gear? Where do you get your wood, as that's not free either...

I bought tools 15 years ago and I don't use them that often, so they don't wear much, and never break. So now it's mostly free. Wood is quite cheap depending on what you do (and I'm not Nick Offerman).

Most projects cost less than €100-200 in materials and take 3 months, so that's around €50 per month on average. Not "free", technically, but not far from free.

Are you doing it all by hand…? Why does it take 3 months? Are you buying huge logs and then using a carving knife for the entire project???? I could easily spend much more on wood for a weekend project.

I cannot certainly fathom only $50/month for woodworking unless your hobby was exclusively turning small bowls and you loved waiting months for bowls to dry out.

Photography can be somewhat expensive.

I do a lot of photography. Photography can be extremely cheap. Current gear is of incredibly high quality; a camera can stay relevant for over 10 years and lenses, forever. If you buy a camera for about $1000 every 5 years that's $200/year, less than $20/month. And you can certainly buy cameras less often than that.

Then storage, software costs, while not exactly zero, are negligible.

Printing can be expensive if done well. But I've found, nobody cares about prints (except maybe the photographer).

Having kids, while not a hobby, can certainly be expensive, and is probably the most obvious missing consideration here. It also makes a lot of other things less flexible, which tends to cost more money. (Want to go to a movie at night? Now there's a babysitter involved).

Kids aside, lots of things cost money. You like eating at nice restaurants? Money. Prefer to home cook nice meals? Great, equipment costs, therefore money. (And maybe ingredients).

Want to work out? Gym subscription or trainer = money. Buying your own home equipment = money. Want some form of cardio? Biking = buying a bike. Etc.

Nice clothes cost money. A nice TV costs money. Nice tech gear costs money. Etc.

And of course, travel costs a lot of money, depending on where you live.

There are obviously lots of other examples and hobbies. None of these are necessary. You can choose to be frugal with all of them, absolutely.

But - that's parent's point. Most people earning a relatively nice salary will naturally spend more money on nice stuff. That's partly because of natural tendencies to "use up" what we have, partly because of trying to be like other people, etc. But it's also partly because spending more money gives you nicer stuff / experiences, and people like them. And if you have the money, why not? There are reasons, but parent is right - you have to consciously choose to be different than normal and not spend money the way other people do when they can.

Equipment costs are not exactly costs. They are investments that can be amortized over many years. Cooking utensils are not free but they last a lifetime, sometimes longer. I have pans and pots from my grandmother; and old gear is often better than new gear.

If one has money then spending it is good, of course. The question is, what are we willing to give up to get more money, and for what. I would argue time is infinitely more precious than money, above a threshold -- but the threshold is very low.

> Equipment costs are not exactly costs.

Yes, they are.

> They are investments that can be amortized over many years.

So, they are capex rather than opex costs.

> I would argue time is infinitely more precious than money,

Were that true, the market clearing price of people's time denominated in money would be infinite. Which would be inconvenient, since largely money exists to enable the indirect exchange of time for time (largely, as labor).

Yes, that's the reason why we are having this discussion, and the point of TFA. Some people think one should work for as long and as hard as possible in order to maximize their revenue. Others think that once their basic needs are covered, doing more work is pointless.

This difference has existed for a long time. It's discussed at length in Max Weber's Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism for example, which has funny things to say about the philosophy developed in Ben Franklin's autobiography.

I mean, that depends. Equipment costs are certainly investments, and things like cooking utensils can be handed down...

But if you're a software developer like OP, then you need a computer. You probably want a second (or third) monitor. The computer probably needs to be replaced every few years, and you're probably getting a relatively expensive machine.

Add to that an office - desk, good chair, etc. If you're trying to save money, yeah, you might not be getting a fancy expensive chair. But if you have the money to spend, I'd argue it's still a good investment for your back. Etc.

Now you can consider all of these as investments, but then how much you make as a contractor has to take that into account.

(Btw, didn't get into this, but the article is missing a lot of things you need to think about as a contractor, e.g. there's often downtime between projects, sick days, insurance is usually a good idea, etc. I've been doing this kind of thing for basically 10 years, it's not as simple as OP makes it sound.)

Working out? A squat rack + Starting Strength book does not cost much and you won't need a trainer and you will become strong, fast.

None of the things you described have to cost a lot of money. Cheap bike, is still a bike. You can still watch a cheap tv. "Nice" does not mean much, really.

Furthermore, I don't see any allowance for the time needed to get those contracts, take care of business stuff, etc. To say nothing of downtime when a perfectly-timed new contract just doesn't come along. Maybe it's possible in the current climate but it's not the norm.

I see what you are saying. Yes, lots of assumptions and luck to get to this position to be able to do this for 7 years. Totally agreed.

Get done with college at 22, work 7 years and retire at the age of 29. This is not impossible. Just most people don't want to do it, but it's totally available.

You will be lucky to earn US$1000/day fresh out of college.

And "don't have kids". Children are a huge time & money suck. Not saying they don't have their rewards too, because they do, but they are also a huge cost.

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