Ask HN: How do I stop hating my job? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How do I stop hating my job?

38 pointsgiantg264 comments

I hate my job. It's a combination of the usual complaints from people working in businesses with IT as a cost center and the company repeatedly ignoring/breaking it's own policies.

I'm looking to switch but not finding anything better. I'm also looking to change teams internally.

How can I can I stop hating my current job/role?

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"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self esteem, first make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes." — Notorious d.e.b

The key for me in that situation is to identify what it is that I am most unhappy about. Is it a particular individual who makes your life hell? Is it that they enforce their own policies unfairly? Or do you feel like you are wasting your life at tasks you do not enjoy?

The answers will inform your decision about a course of action.

This is where I strongly disagree with the adage, "if everyone around you is an asshole, you're the asshole." Because not necessarily; some places are just full of them.

The people I work with are great. It's just management that are violating policies to my detriment. The work is boring and/or frustrating, but I would be tolerable if I were treated fairly.

"Is it that they enforce their own policies unfairly? Or do you feel like you are wasting your life at tasks you do not enjoy?"

Thanks! It's definitely these two. They don't just enforce the policies unfairly, they actually do the complete opposite of the policies. I'm tired of being on a treadmill going nowhere.

Omg that's me! @debbshock on Twitter. Thanks for quoting me

Stop caring, and do the job you want to have as much as you can.

I'm assuming you have things in mind for the job you want. Do the bare minimum for what you're assigned, then volunteer to do the parts you actually want to do. Even if they're going to get thrown out or not implemented, at least you get to work on something you like and get a new resume bullet.

By feeling like you're getting some form of professional advancement, you might hate every day a little less.

"Do the bare minimum for what you're assigned, then volunteer to do the parts you actually want to do."

I've done this and they punished me for it. They want you to be doing a lot of regular stuff and they don't care about the extra.

I guess my follow-up would be “How much worse is your job when they’re trying to punish you and you get to do what you want, versus when they’re just normally terrible and you hate what you do”.

As well, it’s worth checking how their feedback mechanisms work for how they know what you’re doing, and then making adjustments to your working style to give the right signals while doing better work.

While applying for new jobs, because it’s clearly a bad situation.

Compartmentalize it. It is a method to earn a living. outside of that, free yourself from it. If it is burning you out, slow down what you can and pace yourself. No one does good work stressed out. Then you need to focus on things outside of the job. go for a walk, play a video game. Spend time doing stuff your SO or pets like. Be there for others outside of work. Read a book. but if you have burnout, that needs to be addressed first.

Thanks. I do try to think of it as just a job. Unfortunately, it doesn't help with the frustration and boredom at work. I have a decent time outside of work.

Do you have access to pluralsight or learning.oreilly.com ? Learn something new or hard if that's what you want. I've found that being bored is because I'm being boring. Find something to not be boring over and that will help work it out. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/12579-only-boring-people-ge...

I do. I only want to learn things that are useful though. There's not a lot of opportunities to do anything interesting on this team. I am working on renewing my AWS certs. I might try going for the professional level cert.

>"I'm the programmer equivalent of a Yugo (car)" <-- your profile

might start with self-esteem... if you think you're not worthy you'll end up in the same place/job/situation again

Yep, my self esteem (professionally) has slowly eroded during this job.

Pursue what you want, don’t just run away from what you don’t want. Neoxam (which you mentioned) is hardly a mainstream programming platform (“over 150 customers worldwide”). Learn a more general system/language to escape

I think it's the opposite of what Tolstoy wrote:

"Every unhappy software developer is unhappy in the same way, every happy software developer is happy in a different way."

That is, it is a lot of work to find a situation you are happy in or (conversely) figure out how to be happy in the situation you are in.

Take a look at this classic book

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3650010-have-fun-at-work

Thanks, I'll take a look at that book.

A lot of people here are suggesting switching jobs, but I'd recommend just leaving before you do that. If you don't, there's a high likelihood that you'll go to far into burnout and it'll take years to want to be near your discipline again. Just fucking leave, it's the only answer.

Jobs are like anything else, if you start hating it, it's best to leave, because it won't change. Yes I've been in this situation. Yes I should have left.

I have a family I have to support, so I can't just leave.

The job market is insane right now. If you are halfway decent and have Java, Python, Ruby, .NET, or Vue/React on your resume you will have 2-3 offers in the next four weeks.

Also I would ask do you have an 3-6 month emergency fund? If so then I would simply say leave now, like right now. Take the holidays off to brush up your resume and start your new job hunt. If this job is crushing your professional self esteem there is zero chance it isn't negatively impacting your family. Children pick up on everything and will pay more attention to what you do than say. You are showing them that you are unworthy of being treated well, thereby they will start to internalize that they too are unworthy.

I agree with your latter point, but not your former. The job market isn't that hot, and it's unsafe to be that optimistic. There's a lot of companies looking, but you need to be remarkably lucky or have something notable with your name on it (lucky) to land something that quickly. It's also cheaper than ever for any company to try and filter people out before anyone looks at your resume. You apply, and you get handed a multi-hour long coding test that they bought from HackerRank. Ya maybe you pass it or should be able to, but maybe you've been programming Vue for the last 6 months, they didn't speak to you, and so sent over a React test. Either way, it's an absolute shitshow to interview right now, with a lot of variability in all aspects.

"but maybe you've been programming Vue for the last 6 months, they didn't speak to you, and so sent over a React test. Either way, it's an absolute shitshow to interview right now, with a lot of variability in all aspects."

Yep, this is what I've been seeing a lot of...even for the internal job postings that require a code screen.

I'm halfway decent at Neoxam and Filenet. It doesn't seem that insane to me. Sure there are tons of senior postings, but very few midlevel.

I don't want to leave until I have something better lined up. Supposedly this place is one of the best companies to work for, so I don't want to be pressured to take a worse job if I don't have income.

Why don't you take a month off then? As long as it wouldn't be devastating to your finances, it would be great for your mental health. That's definitely another thing I should have done. But I didn't, and I burnt out, and I got terminated before I could quit which makes it a lot harder to bounce back.

Part of the problem is that software dev just absolutely sucks, a lot of the time.

Thow would be a great idea if I weren't already off track (rating). They will hold that time off against me, especially since it would be a leave of absence. They would have to approve it too. I dont want to be put on a PIP.

Spend a few hours each day, perhaps while clocked into this job you despise, studying a course on interview preparation. I spent $600 dollars on an interview prep course after months of interviews without offers, and I got an offer with an 80% raise on the first interview I did after filling in my knowledge gaps. It's hard to learn how to interview, but it's easier than learning how to program.

I have been in your position before. Burnt to a crisp, bitter and angry every morning I logged onto that God forsaken Slack workspace. My biggest regret is not knowing I could have jumped ship as soon as they asked me to work Saturday and Sunday ... again. Do me a favor and do the best for yourself!

Thanks! I actually do really well in interviews except for the code screen part. I'm always slow on that part since I have limited experience in any one language.

Me is the same in feeling towards my current position. I really like the combination, that I won't find like that outside. For sure.

My problem is that none of my colleagues can do anything and I can do everything. With my qualification it would be easy to find outside. And that's year for year with changing colleagues - and I don't get a raise, not in these crazy times right now. Nor before. Stupit.

But, I have some benefits, like stand up in the morning and write a Whatsapp message if everyone is ok with me taking day off, or, the hierarchy is very flat with every one working on their own .

So I try to see the good side of the job. Don't you have good times, too? Some days are really productive, some sucks. In the end of the day, I think about what have I done and what needs to be done "tomorrow.." (procrastinated). On the next day, I'm happy with finishing all that, and, again..what need to be done tomorrow..

So it's stress. But a "good" one. Do you sometimes have that moment of feeling good after some difficult situation, too?

I think the weights are towards the negative with you. Not the usual hokus pokus esotericus - but, buy that Lapislazuli and put it 3 times a day near your stomach!

No, joke. Try to see the positive aspects in what you do. Don't care about the others. You have to assume that the others are lazy and stupid, but also you do have to realize that in the eyes of other's you're lazy and stupid, too. By that it's easier to understand the fault's, errors, decisions - after all it's human. Some are really crazy.. and a friend of mine once told me he thinks I'm strange. I don't see that in my self observations :)

That will the beginning..

don't be toxic. See no toxic. Don't become toxic. (Chuck Norris)

My advice is typically just to join a tech-based startup. They won't (shouldn't) care about anything but whether you can deliver results. Coding is hardly a cost center. Breaking its own policies? There aren't any policies to speak of (yet). This is a bit of overstatement but close to the truth.

Is your day to day bad or is it just your feeling toward the job?

If your day to day is bad or the pay is not enough, change job. If you hate something else about your job which is not about yourself (people don't value engineers, unfair things happen), you may benefit from stop worrying about things that don't concern you. You can even joke about how bad things are. Some of the funniest times in my career were in failing startups I had no shares in.

Once you mastered that and you're nice and calm, you can even try to manage upwards, point out the problems and solve them - but you should be detached from the problem, as if it were an algorithm you're writing to solve a gnarly problem. No need to get upset.

Reading your other comments, you can probably do better than where you are, unless you're in some country with a broken economy.

Consider getting a job with s country with better engineering salaries so you can earn more money and be treated better. I'd go with States, UK or Switzerland. In the past you would have likely needed to relocate, nowadays it may just work.

Just apply to some companies abroad.

There's nothing you can do. You can try to be in the moment, or try to not be in the moment. But your brain will know that you are trying to fool it, and it won't allow you to fool it. So you need to go all in, and really, really hate your job.

Based on reading your responses my summary would be ...

You've already tried to improve your current position, and it seems like that hasn't gone well and is leading to you losing interest and focus.

Get a new job.

In particular, I'd suggest getting a job at a software company rather than as a company where IT is a cost center. While this isn't a magic bullet, I think you're more likely to have a better experience at a company where software dev (and associated roles like QA, build engineering, Devops, etc.) are at the core of what the company does.

Thanks. I'm looking, but there's not much out there, especially for mid levels.

I see you referring to yourself as mid-level. Whether that's true or not, apply to all senior swe jobs. Titles vary company to company and even if a role looks for "senior" they still might hire you and bring you on at "mid".

Thanks, I have tried that for a couple roles i really liked. Unfortunately, if my resume doesn't list formal experience in that tech it seems to be getting trashed.

If I'm not growing then I quit. To me, personal growth is more important than anything. An investment in knowledge pays the best interest.

Don’t double bind yourself if you want to be happy! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind

Gratitude Journalling might help. Noticing and noting down things to be grateful for, at the end of each work week, might help you see the flowers growing out of the field of muck.

> I'm looking to switch but not finding anything better.

What is your skill set? Finding a new job can be hard, with a bit more information we might be able to provide some advice on this front.

Most of my experience is with FileNet and Neoxam.

I'm not familiar with either of those products. However if you haven't had luck applying to FileNet or Neoxam specific jobs I would try the following:

1. Figure out how other companies are solving the problem FileNet or Neoxam solves for your company. Make some forum posts, ask in chat channels, or find people IRL who might know this.

2. Apply to those jobs at those companies. You may need to show some proficiency in the software they're using or get some certifications. This can be tricky, but again rely on the people at those companies to figure that out.

Or you could learn something different. I'm a software developer so I could answer any questions with regards to getting a coding job. Find what you want to do, talk to the people that do it, then follow their footsteps.

It's not easy though. Being stuck with experience that isn't very marketable is a tough spot to be in. Good luck.

I did switch tech, so that's something I'm working on.

> the company repeatedly ignoring/breaking it's own policies.

Learn to ignore "policies", and only pay attention to what people actually do, what works, and what gets rewarded.

What works and is rewarded varies from person to person. I've done the stuff that should be rewarded, but it wasn't.

Look for a new job, if that is an option. But remember, most jobs suck. But it is still a win, if your new job sucks less than your current job.

Try setting artificial goals, just to make your tasks interesting. Like, doing it super fast. Or automating as much as possible.

If you’re working from home, try learning something new on company time. Before you downvote me for suggesting something unethical, remember a lot of people browse Facebook at work. Even browsing HN at work can be considered unethical too!

Unless your company is working on something noble (like a cancer vaccine or something like that), it is probably just another commercial place to make a handful of people rich at the expense of many. So don’t get attached to your job, it is just a way to put food on the table.

As long as it is work related, it is not unethical to educate yourself in something new. For example, a new tech stack, similar discipline, or business administration. Employers and employees benefit when the employee keeps learning and bring more diversity and experiences to work.

Lower your expectations

Can you explain this? What is a reasonable expectation?

Happiness is all about expectation management. Living in a constant state of disappointment and letdowns is miserable.

There is no objective criteria for whats too high. It's something you have to feel out on a case by case basis for everything in your life. What are your expectations for your spouse? Your career goals? Your children?

This is the only valid answer. But to make it stronger still i would say; Lower your expectations overall and Change your expectations of the existing conditions.

What you are going through is the same as what a lot of others too have gone through. It is nothing new but since everybody's circumstances are different, you have to find your own unique solution.

Here is my suggested strategy;

* Don't quit your job but take some time off to work through your issues and clear your head. Make it a week at the minimum even if you lose some pay.

* Sit down, calm your mind and write out the following;

   - What are your job's responsibilities i.e the absolute baseline requirements to maintain it? Throw out everything else; it doesn't matter what they could get you (money, promotion etc.) in the future. The idea is to stabilize the present and get into a good mental state. You have to limit everything that you get involved in, in order to gain control over the situation.

    - Are you having problems with colleagues, management etc.? Write out in detail what and with whom. For each, see what you can change at your end and act on that. If you cannot change something limit your exposure to that stimuli. For example; is some colleague making you feel like you are not good enough? Limit your interactions with him and ignore him completely i.e. eliminate him from your mind. Do not allow negative stimuli to permanently affect your mind.

* Work on projecting confidence and strength when interacting with others even if you don't feel like it. We are Animals at the fundamental level and can pick up on the slightest of weaknesses in the other. The problem is that we act on this unconsciously to our perceived advantage even if we don't mean to. For example, somebody else mentioned about self-esteem issues based on a single line in your profile. If you don't value and respect yourself, why should others?. You have to demand respect, status etc. i.e. you must stamp your individuality in all interactions. Straighten your posture, look people in the eye and speak confidently.

* There will always be people better than you. So if you evaluate your worth based on comparisons with them only, you will always look the loser. Stop comparing yourself to others and only compare to your previous and earlier self. For example, Have you evolved for the better from "yesterday's you" w.r.t. knowledge of something? That is enough.

* Finally, read The Enchiridion (aka The Handbook) of Epictetus and try to apply it to your life as much as possible - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enchiridion_of_Epictetus Here is the first para broken down;

- Of things, some are in our power, and others are not.

- In our power are opinion, desire (movement towards a thing), aversion (turning from a thing); and in a word, whatever are our own acts:

- Not in our power are the body, property, reputation, offices (magisterial power), and in a word, whatever are not our own acts.

- And the things in our power are by nature free, not subject to restraint nor hindrance: but the things not in our power are weak, slavish, subject to restraint, in the power of others.

- Remember then that if you think the things which are by nature slavish to be free, and the things which are in the power of others to be your own, you will be hindered, you will lament, you will be disturbed, you will blame both gods and men:

- But if you think that only which is your own to be your own, and if you think that what is another’s, as it really is, belongs to another, no man will ever compel you, no man will hinder you, you will never blame any man, you will accuse no man, you will do nothing involuntarily (against your will), no man will harm you, you will have no enemy, for you will not suffer any harm.

Take on more responsibility.

Can you explain this?

I've filled the role of tech lead and senior dev on past teams, but without a raise or promotion. I'm also the security champion for my team. On my prior team I was the security champion for an application spanning 6+ teams over 2 departments. I'm still a midlevel dev. I dont see why I should continue to work above my level with no reward.

Also, I can't put in a ton of extra hours do to home life constraints.

Ask for a raise and bring up these points.

You're doing a lot more work, but never got paid for it. Doesn't hurt to ask, or go get an offer from another company and use it as leverage if you want to stay at your current company.

Yeah, I tried asking for a raise I'm the past. They wouldn't do it. Now my performance is slipping, so they certainly won't give me one.

Don't negotiate if you have another offer. Just move. Having them suddenly realize they had money after all will build resentment.

Work less.

They would fire me if I do.

Would they? Would that mean a payout in terms of years worked for you?

Find another job and get fired. Get paid on both ends.

No payout.

I hate working for someone irrespective of what I do. Starting and running a successful business is not easy. Working in the current paradigm for a living is a curse. I have never once felt any fulfillment from work in my more than a decade of working. I’ve always been paid really well and the workload has mostly never been too bad. In my opinion some people are just built this way and I will probably never be happy as long as I’m working. On the flip side, I’ve taken a few years off here and there and I’ve literally never been happier or bored during any of those periods.

What’d you do in your sabbaticals?

Mostly wood and metal working, reading a bunch, traveling, farming/gardening, hanging out with my wife and kid, rock climbing, kayaking, long distance running and learning for the sake of learning. I’ve considered doing wood/metal working full time but I wouldn’t make nearly as much money and my family would have to settle for a lower quality of living.

I would love to have a small farm. It's just not economically possible without another job to get benefits through. I hope to do this as a retirement job. I fear I won't be in physical shape by that age though. Not to mention my wife doesn't want to.

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