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Upvoted, unfortunately it happened to me. I out-earned my spouse by 4x and lost everything when she decided she wasn't happy. Do not expect any gratitude : You have no idea who your ex-wife until you meet her in family court.

My ex wife took half of our (my) assets (including my 401k).

The lawyers took what was left as I was fighting to prevent her from moving away 3'000 miles with our kids (I had to pay for both her and my lawyer) In the end my ex wife won her move away. I lost my kids and I am now stuck paying more than half my salary in child support + child support add-ons such as private school, nannies, healthcare. The remaining of my salary is spent on travel across the country once a month to be able to see my kids.

It is a very risk bet... you don't have much to win and a lot to loose if you are a men (custody) and the higher earner.

Upvoting everything you have said.

Feeling sorry for you too.

I am sincerely grieved for you and your situation, and wish you find joy and perhaps re-discover trust for women in the future.

Hopefully it is not poor taste, but I do disagree with your advice. Yes, marriage comes with a great deal of risk, because it is codifying your love. Love itself is risk, though. As C.S. Lewis said:

> To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact you must give it to no one, not even an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements. Lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket, safe, dark, motionless, airless, it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. To love is to be vulnerable.

Yes, marriage opens yourself up to a great deal of potential financial damage. It also opens yourself up to a secure romance and friendship, where you can build a future based on commitment to one another. I far prefer to give my wife not just my love and companionship, but also my commitment, my future, and yes, my money. She does the same for me, and it is far more secure and stable than just a dating relationship which could end at any time for any reason. Divorce is way harder to go through than a simple breakup, for either party. Just the sheer effort of a divorce gives you stability, regardless of social, legal, and cultural implications.

Try to trust me when I say this - when you’re looking at many years of not having to work and you don’t even have to foot the lawyer bill to make it happen… it’s not as difficult as you think. It’s not a picnic but it’s not purgatory either.

If you were fortunate enough to marry a similarly earning woman then congratulations. Unfortunately - those are exceptional for this industry. At least where I am - it is rare to find a woman making $400K+/yr like I am. Even rarer that she’ll continue working after marriage - as many of the women I know who have made it that far end up giving up the gig and leave the husband to climb the rest of the career ladder to make up for the lost income.

Ultimately - your argument isn’t good. Your argument is “you should get married because getting divorced is so painful!” Why not just avoid divorce altogether?

I’ve seen enough loveless marriages. I put my fucking partner through college at an elite institution. I’m out well over $100K on that - and I didn’t even marry the woman. You don’t need to be married to support someone or to be giving.

Your marriage could end at any point. You just live naively thinking it won’t - but it can and it certainly could. There’s nothing stopping your wife from walking out the door and then filing for divorce. All that is different is that she needs to fill out a few forms or get you to pay for a lawyer - and the upside for her is immense. Hugely immense. Your earning for decades and half of your savings.

> Your marriage could end at any point. You just live naively thinking it won’t

Oh, I'm quite aware that it could end (whether due to death or divorce). I choose not to spend my time dwelling on the possibility, because that would be like living in hopelessness. There are a lot of bad things that might happen to us in the future, and some are even likely, but living in constant dread for the future is joylessness.

I'm not saying I live in fear of it either. I'm saying I don't care to participate in marriage because it is currently an institution that has not allowed itself to be modified to fit couples as they see fit. It is a one-size option and it - unfortunately - does not work for people like myself.

If I was to marry - I'd have to marry someone with the same level of income, spending/saving habits, and so forth for the marriage to be "equal" in the eyes of the law. As it stands - I don't consider that as much of a factor for my relationships because I'm an extremely giving person. However, my willingness to give everything to someone ends when the relationship does. If I choose to not interact with this person anymore then why should I be in their debt until the end of time?

It's not worth it. It creates a perverse power incentive for people in the marriage as well. Again - maybe you're not in that situation but I was making $400K+ and they were making $0 for years. They had no intention of ever working because they knew I could pay for everything. It went from gratefulness in our first year to entitlement by the end of our relationship and had spread like a plague ruining everything. I cannot fathom how much they would feel entitled to if we had been legally married - even if they contributed literally nothing. And I'm dead serious - they didn't do housework or child raising or anything either - they did nothing and yet there are no absolutely no enforceable protections for people like myself... BESIDES not marrying - which is what I advocate for.

I advocate for love, support, giving, and so much but it needs to be on your terms. It cannot be on the terms of some archaic governmental, cultural, and religious institution.

My situation has many similarities. I fully agree with your viewpoint.

Adding to what bradlys has written.

If we can fix the system, then no 'hopelessness' may anymore be involved. That's what we need to push for. As of now, the system for broken marriages is hopelessly bad.

My advice to all would be that even when in a good marriage, to the extent you can, don't make choices that would make the end of it hopeless for you.

I'm adding to what bradlys has written in response.

Women, marriage, love are different things. We should not let these be confused together. A push back against marriage is not same as that against love, and nor against women in general.

Love and emotional vulnerability are one topic. Specific divorce laws are another topic.

As a thought experiment, imagine pushing the divorce laws even further in the existing direction. Imagine a law saying: "if a wife kills her husband, this is not considered a crime, and she automatically gets all his property". Wouldn't this make men even more emotionally vulnerable? Wouldn't this make marriage a more exciting adventure? How much more attention would we pay to choosing the right partner! Definitely seems like a move in the right direction. (just kidding)

Beautifully said and couldn’t agree more.

There’s also plenty of empirical evidence for marriage’s positive impacts on kids not to mention the general principle that two are stronger than one. It’s an institution that’s thousands of years old and stretches across every society and religion for good reason.

Sadly not all marriages are successful (not unlike a startup). But this doesn’t mean they’re not worth pursuing.

I overall agree to what you have said. Marriage has positive impacts on children, and that's why love itself evolved. However, "marriage" as it stands today from a social and legal standpoints comes with a lots of side things that should not be. Times have changed in the thousands of years, however, the system is not being adapted with these changes. The challenges that would have been when the concept of marriage developed (which predates written history) are not the same as the challenges today.

I am not against marriage in itself, however, what it means all taken together is in need of adjustment. And that will happen sooner or later. The positive impacts on children can continue as the system is refined. The only question is how many suffer during the transition phase.

This only works if you marry someone who does not believe in divorce. Good luck these days.

You literally just described my first marriage.

Put wife through school, bought her a car while we were engaged (hers blew up). She didn't work for our entire marriage save but for the last year. She had this weird plan to "take all the money and leave me with all the debt" which she proudly told my brother.

Her plan was to run up our credit cards with daily expenses then take off with all the money in the bank accounts. Of course, that's not how divorce works.

The only thing that partially saved me was, she was too arrogant+cheap+stupid to get a lawyer who would have told her who things actually work. I don't want to be married to her, but I often wonder what would have happened if she had understood how divorce works.

I'm currently preparing a court action because she won't let me see our daughter-- despite me having taken care of her the entirety of covid.

> She had this weird plan to "take all the money and leave me with all the debt" which she proudly told my brother.

This sounds like a nightmare.

It was/is. Picking the wrong partner can ruin your life.

This forum is full of [potential] immigrants so a little warning for all of you laughing at American men. It can happen to you even if you got married abroad and so on completely different terms. In CA she can take not just half of your money but half of your money forever. EVEN IF YOUR WERE CAREFUL ENOUGH NOT TO IMPREGNATE HER!!! Your only defence will be to go back to the old country. So think twice about providing her with H-4.

Also, there will be no shelter to run to. No safe space provided by the government, no newspapers complaining about domestic violence against you or political campaigns for your rights. You'll be on your own.

And don't expect to recover from it. It will scar you for life. You'll probably reach a new low plateau in a few years but you former self or productivity will be gone for good.

Women initiate divorce 70% of the time.

For college educated women this rate is 90%.

That is an amazing statistic…

It's almost all upside for women. The financials are tilted entirely in their direction.

Are you from the US ? I hear so many (soooo many) US men saying the same exact thing. Half of Bill Burr fame comes from marriage stories. Is it the same in every country ? relationship often bring their own madness but the US seem to have their very own kind.

ps: i'm not criticizing anybody btw, and oh I forgot, I saw people giving a lot and receiving nothing back, so I kinda get a bit of your story. It's just the habit of "give me half your money. bye." that gets to me.

Upvoted. Writing this here as I would give the same advice.

upvoted, happened to me, and I had two kids from her. The moment she knew she could do it, she used ALL the power the laws gave her, and until today I am harassed by her. Not worth it, never again. Marriage is the biggest scam we were miss-educated about.

Wouldn't it make sense then to marry someone with a similar socioeconomic status? Or if divorce is skewed against men, only pursue women who make more than you?

Marriage as legal entity was created as a result of women being more or less their father's property.

What if you meet a woman who makes approximately the same (or more) to take the financial risk off the table. Would that change your mind?

Choosing someone with comparable earning power might lead to a more interesting partner anyway

Hey, I'm a project. That hurts. My wife makes a lot of money, a lot more than I do. Guess I have the upper hand, then? :/

I funnel all my money into crypto and then into cash in another country. Good luck finding that.

You know, it's best not to leave evidence of or admit to a crime. However, I am not a lawyer...

Just get a prenup.