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Comment by zz865 | Hacker News Reader

Are Ivy league universities worth it for undergrad? I get his point that high pressure childhood and aggressive parenting isn't the best way to educate children - but then he sent his kids to Harvard where most of the people there are just like that, care more about prestige rather than learning.

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If you are going to school to get a job then no, not worth it, and all the “average graduate job placement and salary” statistics are not nuanced enough or telling you anything important.

If you are going to school to network with the elite, adopt their culture, and maybe parlay that into financial opportunity by mere proximity, Harvard is still one of the best bets for the last 500 (edit: ROUNDUP (385, -2)) years. They will weather this recent half-century where people associate higher education with working for other people out of necessity (and therefore consider university caste system to be the primary problem as opposed to the entire private sector).

500 years? I had to look it up. Harvard is 385 years old

huh, yeah you're right, I rounded up but also added 100 years. primary point still stands

To be fair, the concept of "more junior clubhouses for the upper echelon of society than colleges/universities" has existed long before before Havard (see Oxbridge).

If you can get in and can easily afford whatever cost you have to pay, they'll unlikely do any harm, and there's some reason to believe they'll help. High quality data on this is hard to come by, but what data I am aware of is inconclusive, and that if there is an effect of going to an elite university, it's not that large at the median. https://www.nber.org/papers/w7322

Thanks, that's an interesting paper:

> We find that students who attended more selective colleges do not earn more than other students who were accepted and rejected by comparable schools but attended less selective colleges. However, the average tuition charged by the school is significantly related to the students’ subsequent earnings. Indeed, we find a substantial internal rate of return from attending a more costly college. Lastly, the payoff to attending an elite college appears to be greater for students from more disadvantaged family backgrounds.

Wow its a 1999 paper on 1976 grads, not sure how well the lessons continue.

As I mentioned in my original comment, solid information on this question is hard to come by. I think someone could reasonably believe a number of different things about the effects of elite colleges. But what one cannot reasonably do is be confident in those beliefs, especially a belief that the elite colleges have a strong, positive, causal effect at the median.

You find a lot of mechanical strivers at the country’s top universities but also some of the greatest thinkers in that age bracket. Almost every really exceptional mind is going to pick Harvard over say Davidson if given the choice.

Sure everyone is going to pick Harvard over Davidson but would you pick Cornell over Georgia Tech?

Dang, you did Cornell dirty!

I think if you are good enough to get into Cornell, you are good enough to get in Georgia Tech. The rest is cost. If you are an out-of-stater, they probably end up costing about the same. My understanding is Cornell gives out a lot of financial aids.

Lol not really, I'd still choose it. The problem is I'm just another immigrant and I dont understand the fascination with rankings here, esp when I'm surrounded by tiger parents who work their kids every day to get them into Harvard. Maybe its worth it? Its difficult to tell.

Whether or not it is worth it depends on your priorities. Based on the pedigree of many of the leading political figures and business leaders, it does seem to have a measurable impact to have passed through the leading institutions. Who you know is of course more important than what you know.

But depending high high you are aiming, it may or may not be worth the tradeoffs for you.

Honestly the majority of it is Harvard selecting who they know will be rich, famous, or both. I know a girl who got into Harvard but her parents couldn't afford to send her (this was before they ramped up their financial aid), she went to state school instead, won a Marshall Scholarship, and was a tenured professor at Harvard by her early 30s.

Hell, for the longest time I didn't even think Cornell was a real Ivy.

It always ranked up (down ;) there with Dartmouth.

Then one level above you have Brown and Columbia.

Then above them you have Harvard and Yale.

And right at the top sits dear old Princeton.

And somewhere off the side in the bushes you have UPenn, which today I learned is an Ivy.

That would largely depend on expected outcome.

Do I want to be a Supreme Court Justice? Ivy League all the way.

Do I want to be a software developer? Coin flip.

Do I want to be a professional engineer (with a PE)? I go they give me the most financial assistance, as graduate school is likely to be more important and I need money for that too.

Do I have no idea? I go where I had the most enjoyable* campus tour/prospetive weekend.

* And that varies by student - party vs courses vs whatever else.

Yeah and dont underestimate party schools. Some of my happiest friends have a big network of good friends they met while having a good time in college.

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