That's why dumb devices are getting harder and harder to find. It's much easier to take advantage of users and steal their data with 'smart' devices.
Dumb TVs are the same thing. Hard to find, and surprisingly expensive for the feature set when you do find them.
I don't currently own a TV but if there was a decent dumb TV that was decently affordable and wasn't garbage I might buy one to watch movies on.
Also on the front page
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29218381
Vizio makes more money spying on people who buy TVs than TVs themselves
People love the integration of a single thing in their pocket, but maybe some are getting privacy-conscious enough to have two. Think of it like a TV remote that floats around your coffee table.
In evolutionary biology, there's this idea that "evolution is stingy" – in most cases, a species doesn't have substantially more capability than it needs to survive (human brains are an often cited exception). I kind of expect that, outside of a computer, most product design should be err on the side of being stingy too. If I buy a toaster, I don't need it to be wi-fi connected so it can send me a text notification when the toast is done. I say this satirically, but I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if one existed. Frackin' toasters.
https://www.engadget.com/2017-01-04-griffin-connects-your-to...
The problem is that — in a not so distant future, where every company makes a large slice of its profit from selling user data — Dumb Inc. products will be a lot more expensive than the competition. As people in general are not technically competent to assess the consequences of their digital actions, they will chose the cheaper option. So, perhaps Dumb Inc. won't have mass market appeal, but I guess it could still sell to the techo elite. :)
I also highly doubt that a manufacturer of smart products would pass a "we profit off your data" discount down to consumers. Better they pocket the additional profit and then market it as a convenience for the consumer, which I think is precisely what's happening right now.
Which is why we have the GDPR to prevent this dystopian shite!
The only people on HN who object to the GDPR are those whos scummy business model exploits user data (and those who don't realise GDPR popups only need to exist because advertisers must now ask permission to use your personal data; and so they should!).
Also, as I wrote in my other comment, there are "dumb" appliances on the market - the fact that most people won't search for them is exactly what makes them rare.
I don’t think it’s there. I’d be willing to bet appliances are already a commoditized market and the margins are already painfully thin. “Absolute killing” it would not be.
But the rest of the population just wants smart appliances and Nest or other smart thermostats, Ring/other key hole cameras, Alexa/other smart devices and Facebook/Instagram/TikTok/…
So, unfortunately it’s not going to be a very successful business because the dumb masses have been brainwashed into accepting these smart devices.
I think Framework would be a good test. If they are successful it may imply that there is a large enough market, otherwise all bets are off.
Similarly, a lot of people are willing to buy a Tesla despite all the monitoring that that car does. And so on.
So, it is obvious that a certain percentage of people don't care about privacy. Now, what is dangerous is that a substantial percentage of these people are so called tech-savvy and even people in the tech industry. So, if they don't care despite them being able to understand the privacy issues, the general population which looks at these people for buying advice is certainly not going to care.
I'm not making a general comment; I bought a washer and dryer for the first time in my life a couple years ago, GE branded, and they have no wifi, bluetooth, or even any kind of electronic display.
As it happens, I got them more for their dimensions fitting the space I had than anything else, as GE hasn't had the greatest reputation for reliability in recent years. But so far, they work fine.
Unfortunately in this case the greed of the manufacturer hoping to monetize their UI has ruined an otherwise decent idea(although the device really should function on some basic level without a phone).
They couldn’t bother since there was no recurring revenue stream so you just have to buy a new dishwasher?
Two of the more popular ones, for those interested:
octoprint.org
cnc.js.org
Personally I don’t like those either. I’ve experienced it with printers (which can only be configured initially via USB and some app), 3D printers (configured by putting an SD card in your computer), and other gizmos. They’re all a pain to deal with, especially if your WiFi details change or their IP does.
Some others expect you to connect to THEIR Wi-Fi network instead. Which is also a complete pain.
I don’t mind having an app to make the device more useful, but it needs to have enough controls on the front to use the thing and preferably reconfigure the Wi-Fi if necessary.
> Something simple, like a subset of bluetooth, with easy discoverability
Heck, we've even seen that model simply to use goods you've purchased, as with digital restrictions malignant books, music, videos, and games, where the restrictions-management servers were discontinued and access to the goods (bads) bought requiring them became useless.
Though there is still the prospect of broken or insecure applications. Depending on the specific use case, that might or might not be an issue.
Though there's the casino whose network was hacked through a fish tank:
http://www.businessinsider.com/hackers-stole-a-casinos-datab...
In concept, I agree. As you mention, in practice, the apps used nearly always collect data about you and the use of your devices to send back to the mothership.
That makes their use unacceptable to me. Requiring the use of a smartphone app is a showstopper.
But even if that wasn't the case, it seems odd to require me to provide a device of my own in order to use a machine. There are a lot of people who don't own a smartphone at all (and I will join their ranks once my current one dies). Why exclude that part of the market?
But of course, this lessens the control of the manufacturers, and increases the control of the users. So it won't happen until it's up to the manufacturers.
Welll....
The display on my dishwasher technically exists. It is set on the top face of the panel, facing up into the counter, so it cannot be seen when the dishwasher is closed.
I'm not sure who thought of this, but it must have been approved by multiple people to appear on a real, already-manufactured dishwasher. Every one of those people was apparently terrible at their job.