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Comment by odshoifsdhfs | Hacker News Reader

I'm portuguese, happy to help you there if you give more details. Where will you be living? Rent can range from 500/600 euros in the Porto Periphery to 1500+ in Center. Will kids go to private school (200/300 per month is common, but 'better' schools can go up to 800/1000 per month for the likes ofUBS, CLIP in Porto) or public school (free).

If you don't want to live a lavish lifestyle, I think 2000/2500 after taxes should be more than enough. Average Household income is around 1600 Euros (which is quite low tbh) but livable.

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Thank you for the help. I might be able to earn around 3000 euros (after taxes), would live in a smaller city, maybe close to Porto but wouldn't need to live in Porto itself, and not a lavish lifestyle by any means, just a comfortable life for the kids, no eating out much, no fancy car, etc. I keep thinking that I should wait until I can earn more, that 3000 might not be enough, but a friend who lived there for some time told me this is just my fear of not being able to provide my kids with a good life, and I guess he's right. I keep thinking it might not be enough for a comfortable life for them (again, not lavish/rich, just a good quality of life for them).

Ok, 3k will be more than enough. Will try to run the numbers below choosing high income options:

- 2 bedroom apartment in Matosinhos Sul (near the beach): 900/1000 euros (non 'fancy' places this will be around 500/600)

- Utilities (gas, electricity, water + internet/mobile/cable tv): 200

- Decent food for a family of four: 500

- Going out for dinner once a week with family: 150 euros

- Car: 600 (nice car lease, insurance + gas)

- Public transport for family: 100

Note all the prices are in the upper range. You can easily feed a family of 4 with much less or shopping around (we average 100 per person per month, but we still buy nice cuts of meat and the likes), just showing that it is well within the budget. Spreading out to non beach/not as close to porto places would reduce your rent almost by 50%. You can get a lease with insurance and maintenance included in the price for new a new Mazda 3 for 300 euros for example, leaving you with 100 on gas.

I bought my car upfront and I also own my apartment, so not the best example, but I still pay 300 euros of child support + private school for my kid (250) + other extras, and me and my gf (my kid stays with me 1/3 of the month only) don't spend over 1250 per month including those expenses.

How are public schools compared to private? Does the quality of public schools vary a lot depending on which neighborhood they're located, like in the US, or are they mostly on the same level throughout a city/state?

They are generally ok. They depend a bit on where you live, but not like in the US where the school funding comes from local taxes. If the school serves a lot of 'problematic' areas, there will be more issues/problems, but not because of lack of funding, just the kids that go there, but in general they are ok. A school in a high income area will get better results than one that serves people in the projects, but isn't due to the school/funding itself, but more about the type of students that are there. But overall, they are still good and I would have no issue with having my kid attending one (unfortunately, since the divorce, this has been a pain point between me and my ex, so easier to just keep him where he is)

Also, we have some national rankings of schools (both private and public) but don't get too hang up on that. My kid used to go to a very 'fancy', top ranked and expensive school before. Top of the ranks. Cost per month was over 700 euros. He was bullied there. Robbed of toys and things. His teacher couldn't get him to participate at all (he was identified as 'gifted' with an IQ of more than 130) or do anything in class. Talking with other parents, their kids had similar things happening (other kids stealing things). School tried to hide it until I threaten them with having the police involved (not exaggerating, I had 3 meetings with teacher and director person, and nothing was really done except vague promisses, on 4th time, I had meeting with my lawyer, I went to the meeting and said due to this and that, and the fact that what happening was crime A and B, and if it ever happened again, I would press charges both against the kid and the school (there is law where School is legally responsible if they are aware of this happening and do nothing). 10 minutes after leaving that meeting I had the school director/principal calling me to schedule an emergency meeting. After that meeting, it took me 2 weeks to move my son to another school.

He is now in a 'shittier' school, even has more 'problematic' kids, and there isn't a single issue, he loves it. He may not have fancy digital dry boards, and music lessons with some famous musician, but he is much happier kid. Just did his 'exams' and except for Portuguese (he hates it) scored almost max points in everything. Just because a school charges a lot and has all the 'fancy' things, doesn't mean it is the best for the kids

Hey, I really appreciate you taking your time to help me out. Your answers have been very helpful on a somewhat stressful situation for me (moving my entire family). Thank you very much! Hacker News is great.

edit: P.S. I agree with you on expensive schools not being automatically better. A friend of mine had a similar experience to yours, and it was a very expensive school.

It always surprises me these kind of calculations. When one earns minimum wage or a bit above that, concerns are paying the rent, the bills, food. But when one earns enough to be comfortable paying all of that, one should be a bit worried regarding the topic of living by renting instead of buying a property. Earning 3K euro per month means you probably can afford a mortgage but you will be paying it for 30 years… that makes me sad. My main point is: Not even “good” salaries such as 3K euro are enough to afford a decent house in Europe without having to pay it for 30 years.

You can probably buy something, and not even spend 30 years paying it. I am looking at an apartment right now for 169 that I think they will accept 150k. Assuming no downpayment (banks won't allow it but easier to do math), I could pay the same as rent and have it payed of in 15 years (about 900 a month).

But in general, no, housing market is out of reach even for the middle class and sometimes middle-upper class here (and other places in Europe). But that is what happens when money making machine goes brrrrrr, inflation goes to 5% and the likes, and the central banks still keep interest rates close to zero. Rich will get richer, and the poor, well, fuck them right? /s

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