People with 1 dose J&J will be considered unvaxxed from Jan 3rd 2022 in Austria | Hacker News Reader

People with 1 dose J&J will be considered unvaxxed from Jan 3rd 2022 in Austria

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All of this would have been avoided if we kept the vaccine only for the groups that are high risk. Is absurdly pathetic to see healthy, relatively people in their 20's and 30's terribly scared of covid-19 as if it was ebola. Well, for you it is not, it never was.

Yes, you can get it and you can die, it is possible, but this is a very unlikely outcome to you. We should never ever created this level of fear to vaccinate people with a leaky vaccine, that is based in a few spike proteins from a single variant.

For the downvoters: Please show me numbers from the CDC proving me wrong.

Maybe people in their 20's to 30's are not only being anxious about the direct chance that they could die but of other side effects too?

Long covid alias long lasting damages such as impaired taste that have a high impact on your life and are a good reason to get vaccinated against.

Just because they most likely won't die, doesn't mean that it will be easy nor that it will be without other nasty side-effects. The vaccine has also been limited AFAIK to high-risk groups in most countries before being available to 'healthy' people.

Vaccinating them will also improve the chance for other vaccinated high-risk groups to be infected less and as such help those groups over all in the long term.

> Vaccinating them will also improve the chance for other vaccinated high-risk groups to be infected less

Viral Loads Similar Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated People https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-sim...

UK study finds vaccinated people easily transmit Delta variant in households https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...

Hmm, my comment was meant to reference eeard immunity, but it's interesting that the virus load remains the same. Thank your for linking sources.

Though even if the virus load is the same, it doesn't change the (in most cases) shorter duration people are emitting the virus.

> a good reason to get vaccinated against.

I completely agree, but how does this explain the level of enforcement of vaccination that we are seeing?

I can only guess that it's a mix of the drive towards ending the 'pandemic situation' (see germany for example) and the easy brownee-points some politicians see in going with the train of 'I value lives over (money|...) And that's why I will add the new mandate for vaccines' etc. Or just a lot of pilled up anxiety, that's been collecting over the course of lockdowns.

Maybe you just havent been seeing the same horror I've been seeing in terms of whole families getting covid and falling quite sick in India due to the shock it caused to the healthcare system..

This was exactly one of the concerns of those of us that criticized AstaZeneca in the past and wanted to wait for Biontech/Pfizer - that the vaccine will be considered second rate.

It was of course dismissed, just like the concerns about the blood clots were in the beginning.

Also recently several countries started recommending against using Moderna for under 30s due to the higher risk of heart issues compared to Biontech/Pfizer.

From the data in Israel it is clear that Pfizer's efficacy vanes over time, thus the need for boosters. So, it is not because J&J is second rate. We will probably need boosters while there's high prevalence of the virus.

Pfizer’s own data says the same thing. The safety and efficacy study they did shows that efficacy drops by about 6% every 2 months.

Everyone will need boosters at least once per year in perpetuity if they want to maintain any reasonable amount of protection.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261159v...

> Everyone will need boosters at least once per year in perpetuity if they want to maintain any reasonable amount of protection

At 6 months, there's a stark difference between VE against infection versus VE against hospitalization. What endpoint should we really care about? Constantly boosting a non-sterilizing vaccine that is apparently still highly effective at reducing the risk of severe outcomes is mind boggling.

There are people getting breakthrough infections just 2-4 months after their second dose. Look at how much drama has been generated trying to get people to take an initial vaccination series. The idea that vaccination campaigns for perpetual boosters every 3-6 months could ever be widely successful is absurd. It just isn't going to happen.

It's pretty obvious that virtually everyone is going to get this thing at some point even if they've been vaccinated, and eventually public health officials will have no choice but to accept that natural immunity is a real thing.

I recall all the way back in March public health “experts” said that everybody was gonna get it. That was the idea behind “flatten the curve” to keep everybody from getting it at once…

Dunno how society forgot that.

Does natural immunity wane off at the same rate?

It doesn't look like it.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...

> SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.

So it's better to get natural immunity while under the effect of vaccine. I'm sure Pfizer would prefer perpetual mandatory boosters because thats a fat revenue stream.

Nops, because of antigenic imprinting.

From the wiki (that prefers the annoying name Original Antigenic Sin, probably invented by a theist)

"Original antigenic sin, also known as antigenic imprinting or the Hoskins effect,[1] refers to the propensity of the body's immune system to preferentially utilize immunological memory based on a previous infection when a second slightly different version of that foreign pathogen (e.g. a virus or bacterium) is encountered. This leaves the immune system "trapped" by the first response it has made to each antigen, and unable to mount potentially more effective responses during subsequent infections. Antibodies or T-cells induced during infections with the first variant of the pathogen are subject to a form of original antigenic sin, termed repertoire freeze."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin

Correct. It's inconvenient for the current narrative of getting absolutely everyone vaccinated with a spike protein from a single variant, but the best immunity currently available is naturally-obtained.

Also, mostly unrelated, but the word "sin" has little to do with theism, though maybe that's where it's most commonly used. For example, in archery, a miss is called a "sin". I think it's apt for this concept.

Better to get natural immunity and just leave it at that. But it you got a vaccine afterwards from what I've gathered your natural antibodies will outcompete whatever the vaccine is producing. The inverse appears to be the same, in that, your body will be unable to produce its own antibodies after getting a vaccine because it is being outcompeted. This seems to pose an issue for variants, as your body will have no way of fighting off a sufficiently mutated virus, it will continue to produce the wrong antibodies. This is known as antibody-dependent enhancement, or ADE, and was a well understood risk prior to rushing out these vaccines.

Not sure if there are studies, but I don't think it likely. It is almost natural to suppose that infection confers a broader antigenic stimuli than just a single spike protein for a single variant.

I got one dose of JJ and i was feeling so sick that it was difficult to stand up for two days. The idea of doing that routinely is insane to me.

I got covid in march. I had a fever for two days, about two weeks of congestion and mucus, and loss of taste/smell for a month. I had two antibody tests done, july and september. I was positive on both. Got the J&J in setember because it was becoming impossible to do anything without a vaccine card and it was worse than covid. One and a half days of chills, fever, sweating.

Whatever antibodies I got from my vaccine will probably disappear before my natural ones. I still don't understand the point of getting people who had a natural immunity to get vaccinated. There is little to no evidence natural immunity is worse, and compelling evidence it is superior to a vaccine (see: Israel study).

I remain convinced the CDC is in bed with the pharma companies producing the vaccines.

Vaccine-induced or natural immunity isn't just about antibodies. Immune system gets to remember the spike protein (vaccine) and other characteristics of the virus (natural immunity) so even if antibodies go down, the body remembers and can create new antibodies on next encounter. So you still have some immunity benefit.

Agreed on natural immunity, it would be very unexpected and weird if it was substantially worse than vaccine-induced immunity. And there isn't any evidence of that, afaik.

And yet Wolenski, Fauci, the CDC, continue to "reccommend" people get vaccinated regardless of natural immunity and refused to answer the senate on whether they think those with natural immunity should be exempt from vaccine mandates.

When officials all push the same narrative and ignore available relevant scientific knowledge that contradicts this narrative, that's how we know they became untrustworthy actors similar to politicians even if they were at some point considered scientists. It is amazing how the narrative pushed from above is everywhere the same, despite many respected scientists pointing out massive holes that smart children can see.

I got one dose of JJ and felt bad the next day. I got covid last week and slept a full day and felt miserable the rest of the week. My folks are sick going on a week and a half now (unvaccinated). Vaccines still seem much preferable to me.

Well, the infrastructure is now in place. At a whim, the government can strip back freedoms of people and claim it is for the greater good.

It wont matter if you have had 2 injections of Pfizer in the past, the government soon will deem you completely unvaccinated and take away your freedoms without looking at your demographics or your previous vaccination status.

Insanity.

Yep. Just like "at a whim" the government says you need a tetanus shot every ten years. Chilling.

Boosters will be required every 6 months unless new vaccines are invented, so I don’t think you can compare them.

There is no mandate for tetanus. Unless they just forgot to check mine when I went 15 years without one.

A logical analogy.

Or they get you fired. Oh wait.

Who said at a whim? We need everyone to be vaccinated. I don't see anything different between requiring vaccination and requiring boosters

Vaccinated are still contracting the virus, spreading it, and being hospitalized. I don't think it's providing the safety you've been convinced it is.

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