Tesla Had 5 Founders. Why Did Only Two Get Rich?
forbes.com
forbes.com
To give everyone an idea, they mostly left around the time the roadster was still a modified Lotus.
Investing in PayPal.. C'mon Forbes he made the Business.
"Why did only two get rich"... they really mean billionaries not rich
Similar (but more amicable?) story, Reed Hastings was an Investor in Netflix before becoming CEO.
He made the business sink....so much that the board had to fire him and install Thiel instead, who did the only sensible thing: clear the deck, secure the hatches, give it a paintjob and offload the sinking ship to a bigger fool.
Musk entire carrer up to this point has been about offloading overpriced and overhyped equity to bigger fools.
Other guys at the top of the Forbes list such as Gates, Bezos, Larry&Sergey, Zuckerberg...you can't turn your head without seeing the logo of the company they founded.
With Musk, he's a specialist of techno-utopianism and promising about his company becoming as ubiquitous as the other FAAMGs, but it's always 5 years away.
Guy is 50, has been doing this for 30 years and I never used a product or a service of a company he was at the helm of, and I am not exactly a subsaharan farmer. The closest was when I was paired with an Uber driver who had a Tesla S but he deleted the trip.
It's all about promises, hype and financial engineering to pump the stock so that he can take loans to finance his lifestyle.
20 years from now a whole bunch of people will look so stupid for believing this guy, it's like one of those MLM scams on a global basis.
Yeah the people who bought PayPal for 1B at EBay must be kicking themselves over that acquisition it is only worth 240B now.
What does the current market cap have to do with Musk? He has not been at the helm of PayPal since 2000
This is like saying Henry Ford deserves credit for the Mustang Mach-e
The 2 are not mutually exclusive.
Ebay was a bigger fool as it overpayed for PayPal but their execution was brilliant in making PayPal a platform that is actually used by people, and not just vaporware future hope and dreams, like each and every Musk company.
Facebook also paid 20B for Whatsapp which is nuts.
The thing with Musk is that it's his modus operandi, meaning divorcing his net worth from the real and tangible impact of the company he is at the helm of.
He has done it again and again, when he perceives that he has a bigger fool ready he offloads the overpriced equity and bails.
He'd do it again , only problem Tesla is so big in terms of market cap that the bigger fool at this point can only be the Federal Government.
Some people in here excuse him because it's exactly what they want to do too.
Creating a startup, hype it up and sell it to a Forbes500 company who'd overpay for it and would then kill it off
He could easily sell his Tesla shares to the public but hasn’t. He could take SpaceX public and make another dozens of billions. He hasn’t done it. I don’t see the pump and dump you are attributing to him.
> Guy is 50, has been doing this for 30 years and I never used a product or a service of a company he was at the helm of, and I am not exactly a subsaharan farmer.
Last time I checked, Musk is the CEO of a rocket company so not a business I expect a normal consumer to be involved with. They are sending rockets at a previously unseen speed by the way.
He is also the CEO of Tesla and I don’t know where you live but these cars are now everywhere in Europe. A friend of mine has one. There is one parked in my street. It’s not really a niche product.
I have little sympathy for the man and dislike the way he acts as much as anyone else but to pretend his businesses are only promises and invisible you would have to seriously distord reality.
OMG! ONE! In a well off European street. You might want to check how many BMWs and Benz and Land Rovers are also in your street.
If you are a car person you'll get this: Teslas are as niche as Alfa Romeos.
Moving on to really ubiquitous companies...as 20th century stuff that we take for granted such as old Pentium Desktops are first installed in remote places in Subsaharan Africa...what's the first logo these people see?
Microsoft Windows XP, what's the second? the Google doodle , what's the third? Facebook's blue F.
These are deserving trillion dollar companies, they fit the definition of "being everywhere", not Tesla.
I live in a condo complex in US, I see several Teslas parked on the street. I don't see a single BMW, Benz or Land Rover. Teslas are almost always parked in garages (for charging). So what you see parked on the street is a small fraction of actual footprint.
> Moving on to really ubiquitous companies...as 20th century stuff that we take for granted such as old Pentium Desktops are first installed in remote places in Subsaharan Africa...what's the first logo these people see? Microsoft Windows XP, what's the second? the Google doodle , what's the third? Facebook's blue F.
20th century (1901 - 2000)
- facebook was founded in 2004. According to you, FB is ubiquitous in subsaharan Africa even before its founded!
- Even more interesting is the fact that as of 2016, 47% of people in the world not on the internet. If we are talking about subsaharan Africa, that may be 80%! But they use facebook. Using what? IP over Avian Carriers?
- The first iPod was released in Oct 2001, but it was widely adopted in subsaharan africa before it was launched! I'm sure they are using credit cards to buy the music, dancing to the tunes on their commutes to work.
- Windows XP, GA Oct 2001. Widely adopted by subsaharan Africa. All of them have PCs and extensive experience in cybercrime, stole Windows source code before its released, fixed all the bugs (those darned BSODs!), bought a billion PCs, turned them on (while having no electricity) and are the first billion adopters of Windows XP
- Google founded in 1998, immediately widely adopted by a billion subsaharan africans?
You fit the textbook definition of a troll.
old 20th century stuff such as old pentium Desktop that we throw in landfills are a treasure for those in subsaharan Africa and it's the first PC they get their hands on right now in 2021.
For sure they aren't getting their hands on Alienwares and nVidia 3080s.
When they first power it up, what's the first sign of modernity they see? Microsoft Windows XP logo.
What's the 2nd and 3rd? The Google doodle and Facebook's blue F.
The 3 aforementioned company are literally at the bootstrap of modern civilization for people who are able to get some quality of life for the first time, the same quality of life that we take for granted.
They are at the frontier of progress where there was no progress before, but I don't expect a fanboy blinded by cult of personlity to understand that.
Teslas are gokarts for rich people. Period.
"If I fire a fixed percentage of the workforce every year, everyone will be on their toes and forced to deliver"
Which is why people have collapsed and died when working for this man.
This is what all companies do with contracting. Most work is done by contractors, usually 10 - 20x of FTE workers.
Or gig work.
At least 47% (3.6 billion people) don't use Internet [5]. Half the population on earth have never heard of Apple, Google, Facebook, Netflix, etc. I personally don't buy anything from Microsoft (they make keyboards?), NVidia, Berkshire Hathaway, TSMC. Never bought CISCO switches or Oracle databases. Never went to Disney, don't drink Coke or Pepsi, never bought anything from Toyota. Don't use FB. Looking at the 50 largest companies[0], at least half of those are companies that I've never had any kind of interaction with. Are all these companies MLMs/scams?
> It's all about promises, hype and financial engineering to pump the stock so that he can take loans to finance his lifestyle.
Guy mostly works all the time (80+ hours), lives in a 50K prefab house (doesn't own a home, very few possessions) [1 - 3]. Why so much resentment against a guy who has broken the oil industry's stranglehold on electric cars? [4]
Should he emulate the frugal lifestyle of CEOs who aren't hated as much? Perhaps like Larry Ellison?
>20 years from now a whole bunch of people will look so stupid for believing this guy, it's like one of those MLM scams on a global basis.
Yep! Tesla is not a real product. SpaceX rockets are a fiction. Starlink doesn't exist. All these just materialized from thin air.
[5] https://stlpartners.com/research/understanding-why-half-the-...
[0] https://www.dogsofthedow.com/largest-companies-by-market-cap...
[1] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1256239554148724737
[2] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1050811017221963776
[3] https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/elon-musk-lives-pr...
[4] https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2017/08/11/how-did-tesla-...
From vaporizing gas to replacing it with batteries, the Achilles heel of the Oil industry has always been a drop in demand. That is why, for decades, it encouraged big 5 Lt, V8 engines that practically spew wasted gasoline from the exhaust. And that is why Big Oil kept buying out any advancement fiercely - especially in the area of batteries. They bought patents and companies left and right. Bought and controlled. Bought and buried. As a result, electric cars in 2004 had the same range as electric cars did in… the 1890’s.
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Reading his biography he does come off as an asshole, people can dislike him all they want (and we probably shouldn't idealize billionaires), but for some reason that's not enough anymore, he has to be stripped of all his accomplishment, "he's not a real Tesla founder", "he stole the SpaceX idea from someone else", "his father had an emerald mine", "he had a negative impact on PayPal", etc...
It seems like some saw too many Hollywood movies where the good is virtuous and morally perfect, and the bad can only advance forward through deceit and unfair advantages. These stories are entertaining, but ultimately they fail to do justice to people that are as layered and complex as we all are.
There is a huge discrepancy between the financial value of Tesla and the presence of Tesla products in the market.
The other FAAMGs you cannot turn your head without seeing one of their logo (both in your house and when walking down the street).
Where can you see Tesla logo? On twitter and the financial headlines.
People are not stupid, especially here...we all know what Musk is trying to do which is basically the same he has always done. Trying to divorce his net worth from the concrete and practical impact that his company is having on the world.
He does so with promises of technoutopian dreams. This stuff might fool the general population, but don't work in here.
As the saying goes "it takes one to see one"
> People are not stupid, especially here...we all know what Musk is trying to do which is basically the same he has always done. Trying to divorce his net worth from the concrete and practical impact that his company is having on the world.
Tesla does ship cars, you not seeing them in the street is more telling of where you live than anything else. I see several every day because three of my neighbours have one. Anecdotes are worthless in these discussions. You not seeing Tesla also doesn't change the fact that SpaceX is putting satellites in orbit and landing the booster afterwards. It has no impact on the current starlink customers getting Internet access in remote areas where they could only get 1Mbps before. It does not change the fact that PayPal is worth $240B today.
In a way you prove exactly the point I am making, you call Tesla a scam because "He does so with promises of technoutopian dreams". Tesla isn't a scam, you can drive the car without owning their stock, the model 3 is even affordable. You dislike Musk and that's fine, but your overly cynical take is not enlightened.
Are you a car person? They are as rare as Land Rovers or Lotus or Alfa Romeos or Fiats. What's the marketcap of those companies?
It's in the millions because those companies don't have a master manipulator cult figure at the helm
> It has no impact on the current starlink customers getting Internet access in remote areas
Where are they? You cannot pinpoint anybody who owns this thing, let's be serious now.
It's always the same, it's the promise of StarLink, the idea of StarLink...number of customers? In the thoudands.
> It does not change the fact that PayPal is worth $240B today.
Musk is not involved (directly or indirectly) in running PayPal ever since 2000.
HN can't have it both ways, if the idea is rubbish and it's all about execution then Lord Musk is not special and his initial idea of X.com/PayPal world domination is also rubbish and Ebay deserves all the credit for the execution.
> Tesla isn't a scam, you can drive the car without owning their stock, the model 3 is even affordable
Enron too, sold products and services...that doesn't mean it wasn't a financial scam engineered by the CEO to enrich himself.
I have never seen any of these (are these cars? what are these?!). Stagecoaches we see in western movies? Other than producers of western movies, who would buy stagecoaches? Marketcap of stagecoaches can't be that great! Millions seems like a lot.
> It's always the same, it's the promise of StarLink, the idea of StarLink...number of customers? In the thoudands.
On HN, we see articles on starlink from early adopters. Not sure what your point is. Everything starts directly with a billion users? This is how all companies have operated in the past?
> Enron too, sold products and services...that doesn't mean it wasn't a financial scam engineered by the CEO to enrich himself.
You have proof this is a scam? Short it! Publish your research and convince other people to short it with you.
I see more Tesla logos more than all the companies you mention. Even including Amazon boxes. To see a Tesla logo, you don't even have to turn your head, you are driving behind one or you see it in one of the lanes. Don't even have to get in a car, I see several parked on my street.
Nobody sees a FB logo. You can turn your head 360 degrees, still no logo. Unless you live in Menlo Park area and drive past Facebook office.
Methinks, you live in a 3D world (Metaverse?) unhinged from reality. Or perhaps 3D printed a few of the logos that you keep repeating. Or just making up stuff.
In my apartment garage, i can see at least a few just as I am walking to my own car. Then i can see at the very least one or two at almost every traffic light. I can also see a bunch at literally every parking lot/garage (ikea, movie theaters, grocery stores, restaurants, etc). When i go to the closest large mall (Bellevue Square) or to the shopping plaza next to a major local college (UVillage) or to a street with a bunch of restaurants nearby (Westlake in SLU), I can see the logo on the Tesla Stores themselves.
At this point, I see more Tesla logos outside than BMW logos on a daily basis. Anecdotal, I know, but I am not just describing some special day when i saw a bunch of Tesla logos outside. With each day, the amount of those I encounter has only been steadily increasing.
By any chance, do you live on East Coast? Because if yes, then I can see why you might be saying that you almost never see Tesla logos irl. I am from east coast, but have been living for at least a few years on west coast, while visiting a lot of places on both east/west coasts on a regular basis. As of now, Teslas still dont seem super big on east coast, even in places like NYC or ATL. I mean, I still cannot go on a 20 min drive in ATL area without encountering at least a couple of Teslas, but it isnt even close to what I see on west coast in general and where I live (Seattle) specifically.
The phenomenon is called Envy.
It’s a fundamental flaw of human nature, a vice, a mortal sin, etc.
My premise was: I am not a subsaharan farmer.
> Looking at the 50 largest companies[0], at least half of those are companies that I've never had any kind of interaction with. Are all these companies MLMs/scams?
1) Unless you are a heremit you used Exxon/BP/Saudi Aramco/Gas and the like
2) Again unless you are a heremit you used JPMorgan/WellsFargo/Bank of America and the like
3) You might have never bought a Toyota but you sure stepped in one, same goes for Benz, Hyundays, BMWs, Fords and GMs
4) What else? The big tech companies, for sure you have used their products. Apple or Microsoft, even if you are Linux user for sure you have used one of them.
5) Your data goes through CISCO switches every time you connect to the internet and your laptop is made up of TMSC semiconducturs
6) You have used a BRK product every time you drink Bud or use Heinz ketchup
7) You might have never gone down to Orlando but for sure you enjoyed Disney content down at the theatre drinking a Pepsi or a Coke.
Unless you own a Tesla or stepped into one via a rideshare app you have never used one of Musk products, directly or indirectly.
> Yep! Tesla is not a real product. SpaceX rockets are a fiction. Starlink doesn't exist. All these just materialized from thin air.
Those things are statistically used by basically nobody and the stock is priced as if they were used by everbody
> the Achilles heel of the Oil industry
I absolutely love the Oil industry. They just mine the stuff and take the blame for me when I willingly decide to burn it to feed my C8 for my own quality of life.
I'd give Exxon CEO a big hug if I could, pay for his dinner too, it's the minimum I could do as he and his counterparts are basically magnets for the lunatics such as Greta and Exctinction Rebellion, they take those lunatics off my tail, they want to destroy the American quality of life for the benefit of people who'd inhabit the planet 300 years from now.
God they will look so dumb when they'd be on their deathbed due to old and boring heart disease, cancer, alzheimer and not because of trendy climate change.