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Comment by mrfusion | Hacker News Reader

Here’s what I’ve learned (thanks Zuby)

Most people would rather be in the majority, than be right.

At least 20% of the population has strong authoritarian tendencies, which will emerge under the right conditions.

Fear of death is only rivalled by the fear of social disapproval. The latter could be stronger.

Propaganda is just as effective in the modern day as it was 100 years ago. Access to limitless information has not made the average person any wiser.

Source: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1412012561164390403.html

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What I learned is that I was giving way too much credits to humans than what they deserved.

People I thought were rational just turned complete morons.

My disappointment is high, I'm getting lonelier and lonelier.

> People I thought were rational just turned complete morons.

Same. Some of the smartest, most rational people I know completely lost their damn minds. Tribalism is more important than just about anything, it seems.

There has definitely been a great deal of disillusionment. I’m constantly trying to digest it without giving in to cynicism.

These are phrased well because for most of them people are going to think "yeah, the other side is crazy". Only a few of that full thread reveal Zuby's bias.

Really? Interesting perspective.

For me, it is very obvious which side this person is on (both the twitterer and HN poster) based on keyword like "authoritarian" and "propaganda" and "fear of death", not to mention "people have science as religion".

Perspective from the right:

- Authoritarianism - The left is authoritarian because they are for mandates and lockdowns.

- Propaganda - The mainstream media and the CDC have continually overexaggerated the threat of COVID.

- Fear of death - People on the left only cares about virtual signaling and not the threat to their personal safety that comes with giving up freedom.

Perspective from the left:

- Authoritarianism - The Trump admin lied to us about the threat of COVID, tried to cover up their mismanagement of the pandemic, restricted people's individual freedom to prioritize their health by forcing people back to work. Also there is the whole trying to invalidate fair elections thing.

- Propaganda - Fox News and Republicans have continually downplayed the threat of COVID and the effectiveness of the vaccine.

- Fear of death - The people on the right would rather follow the leaders of their party than protect their own safety.

The one about science being religion is one of the few that reveals Zuby's bias.

> the effectiveness of the vaccine.

If these vaccines work so well, why are all the blue states requiring fully vaccinated individuals to wear masks? You can even get a booster and still be required to wear a mask. If they are so effective, why does any vaccinated individual give a single crap about the vaccination status of anybody else? Who are these masks trying to protect?

If anything the only people downplaying the effectiveness of the vaccine are the “experts” and all these worthless politicians.

Note: I’m fully vaccinated and believe these vaccines are perhaps some of the best humans have created. There is zero reason to continue dragging this crap on beyond last January. Vaccines were the promised end of all these restrictions. That people seem perfectly okay shifting the goalposts well beyond that is scary as hell.

Vaccines are effective at reducing death and hospitalization. They don't reduce transmission to zero, for the Delta variant in particular. Children and many teens are not vaccinated, and they're also particularly vulnerable to the Delta variant. Masks are most effective at stopping transmission. For the same reason cars are equipped with brakes and seatbelts.

Please stop spreading misinformation. There is no reliable evidence that the Delta variant produces more severe symptoms in children.

Sorry, I should have said "susceptible." But I did not say that children are exhibiting more severe symptoms; those are your words. However, the infection rate of children is much higher with Delta than other variants.

As an aside, I know that this is a hot-button topic. It would be appreciated if you follow the site guidelines, and be more charitable in conversation.

The infection rate for children isn't any higher than adults.

So what if the infection rate in kids is higher? They still aren’t at risk of serious illness. They are far more at risk of house fires, swimming pools and driving.

They increase the overall rate of transmission, putting everybody they're in contact with at greater risk. Especially since they're in schools, often in close contact with multiple cohorts per day. Diseases spread most quickly through densely-connected social networks. We didn't see significant transmission in children with the early variants, but with Delta, the game has changed.

Risk of what? Who cares if people catch covid. It’s never going away. Covid is here forever. Get your vaccine and move on. Vaccines work.

The people who catch it care. The people with dead relatives especially care. The hospitals full beyond capacity care. The patients denied treatment because hospitals are overloaded care. The health care professionals who are overworked and have PTSD from working under these conditions care. Not everybody has, or even can, get a vaccine. For those people, and because of those people, masks are used.

Are they? Are masks the most effective at stopping transmission? Even cloth masks? Masks mandates don't seem to make a difference. And studies sure cloth masks are mostly useless

Masks are an amulet and nothing more. It’s like religion. Deep in most peoples heart they know their religion isn’t real but they’ll never admit it, even to themselves.

Same with masks… deep in most peoples hearts, they know masks don’t do a darn thing. But they’ll never admit it… don’t wanna be thought of as “the others”…

When will masks go away? What is the exact needed to stop mandating them?

And vaccomated people don’t need masks. It isn’t a science thing. It’s just plain stupid to keep wearing them. Life has plenty of other things for people to worry about besides just this myopic fixation on covid.

Define "vulnerable" for children? Please. Using actual data.

>invalidate fair elections thing

The 2020 election was as fair and secure as the covid vaccines are safe and effective.

Exactly. Innumeracy is a powerful limitation on rationality.

This is the same frustrating nonsense I see over and over. And it's frustrating specifically because many of his points I can agree with (somewhat), but shit like this always devolves into "the evil government and media is trying to keep you down".

I mean look at all the talk of "authoritarianism" and "people enjoy being subjugated". I can only assume he's talking about things like mask and vaccine mandates. Which is so fucking bizarre to me because we've had things like seatbelt and helmet laws for decades, vaccine mandates ever since I was born, and one of his complaints is that "the government and media can politicize anything"?? None of this shit used to be politicized to anywhere near the degree it is today - now even things that have the most mild downsides, yet with clear benefits to others, are "the government is out to own you". All with the same bullshit tone of "ahh, look at those ignorant sheeple"...

>we've had things like seatbelt and helmet laws for decades

Libertarians and other freedom lovers have been fighting, arguing against and civilly disobeying those laws, vehemently, for as long as they have been in existence. Perhaps it didn't get as much play in the media.

I'm actually fine with those "freedom lovers" not having to wear seatbelts or helmets, as long as EMS and doctors are free to leave them on the road.

There are plenty of risky activities one can legally partake in… are we just going to let those people die when they are injured?

> I'm actually fine with those "freedom lovers" not having to wear seatbelts or helmets, as long as EMS and doctors are free to leave them on the road.

So you'd be OK with denying life-saving measures to overeaters with diabetes, swingers with AIDS, and smokers with lung cancer? After all, their lifestyle choices are to blame, so according to what you have shared, they don't deserve help.

Some people always seem to be in a rush to forget the humanity in people they disagree with so they can justify letting them die in ways they would consider murder if the tables were turned. It’s like they think they’ve found a loophole to behaving morally or ethically that they think society won’t judge them for.

> Which is so fucking bizarre to me because we've had things like seatbelt and helmet laws for decades, vaccine mandates ever since I was born

It takes a lot of work to go from seatbelt and helmet laws to requiring proof of medical status to enter a clothing store. Especially since most of the people pushing this crap also require everybody to wear masks as well. Like, do these people think vaccines don’t work? Because they sure don’t seem to act like vaccines do anything at all.

So some of the resistance to the vaccines is reactionary, following anger from the so-called lockdowns?

That makes an unfortunate amount of sense.

This is full of hot takes, but it's missing sources and examples, so can't be taken as valid observations.

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