Julia Liuson promoted to President of the MSFT DevDiv, which now includes GitHub
pastebin.com
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GitHub now reports to the same person that did this to the .NET community. Is anyone paying attention or just me? http://theverge.com/2021/10/22/22740701/microsoft-dotnet-hot... (and https://isdotnetopen.com/)
See also https://twitter.com/geoffreyhuntley/status/14559364800234823...
Other items under this persons remit:
- Visual Studio
- .NET
- Python
- TypeScript
- OpenJDK
- GitHub (+NPM)
- (hint hint) Azure SDKs (hint hint)
- (hint hint) Azure PaaS / Azure Serverless (hint hint)
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/k0s8qw/vs_code_devel...
[2] https://twitter.com/geoffreyhuntley/status/14559660287441223...
It's a closed-source application. Stop expecting that. Yes we all want everyone to write nothing but free software all the time, and yes we all specifically want pylance to be open source, but saying that the existence of closed-source code is an attack on open source is both silly and wrong. Would you be happier if the entire .NET ecosystem were closed-source?
Add a dash of people not caring about FOSS tooling (ie mass adoption of visual studio) and the future could be grim.
There is currently a very large amount of infinity stones (core developer tools across all ecosystems) under the control of a single company (!) and reporting to a single person (!)
I hope the cynic within is wrong about this one.
Open source has always been largely the work of people funded by hostile corporate interests. The very words "open source" came from hostile corporate interests because "free software" scared their finance people.
And people never cared about FOSS tooling in the past. A whole lot of open source developers use Windows and macOS. There was a time when Sublime Text was as popular as Visual Studio Code. .NET gained its popularity while it was closed source, while Miguel de Icaza was reimplementing it as Mono.
(Frankly, there was a time - which only ended a couple years ago - when Visual Studio proper, not Code, was not even freely available, never mind open-source-ness.)
So, no, it's not distinguishable, but that's a good thing, because it means that no extinguishing is going to happen. And it's strictly better than Microsoft spending their time enhancing closed-source software, no? That was my question at the end: they could make .NET closed-source (as it was when Mono was a thing) and write a high-quality, Windows-only type inference engine for that - are you claiming that would have been preferable?
How on Earth did you reach that conclusion? A trivial look at that list:
* Web browsers. -- Worked so well that IE remained the dominant browser for over a decade [1]. Of course, bundling was important here too but without the intentional incompatibilities between IE and Netscape, bundling alone would not have been nearly as effective.
* Office documents. -- Despite .docx files being notionally based on an open standard, to this day, Microsoft office will frequently reject as "corrupted" .docx files that have been edited using other implementations of the OOXML standard (in my experience, particularly when tracked changes are enabled or images are involved). In most such cases in my experience, the sentiment from coworkers is "why don't you just install Word" --- so apparently still working as intended.
* Instant messaging -- seems to have worked pretty well at the time [2] and remained popular for nearly a decade. And while they later lost marketshare to transformationally different technologies (texting, mobile messaging), the competitors against which they used the strategy remain dead.
* Against Java -- Led to major legal action, in which Microsoft was forced to pay Sun >$2B and agree to discontinue the practice in settlements, presumably only because by now people were catching on to the strategy. Failing that, Microsoft just made a separate competing language for cross-platform (AKA "write once run anywhere" :) development and called it.... .NET [3]
> And it's strictly better than Microsoft spending their time enhancing closed-source software, no? That was my question at the end: they could make .NET closed-source
Presumably it is reasonable to assume that they would like to grow the market share of .NET. While more open code is usually good, I would indeed not consider it "strictly better" if their goal in this work is to capture market share against other languages by leveraging the popularity and community that comes with "Open Source", while leaving them in a position where they can then reassert hegemonic control over their language via exactly the pathway being discussed here.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_wars#First_Browser_War...
[2] https://www.nplusonemag.com/issue-19/essays/chat-wars/
[3] The tagline on https://dotnet.microsoft.com is currently "Free. Cross-platform. Open source." The "Open Source" part of course only added somewhat more recently after the closed-source version failed to dethrone Java. Not that I like Java so much or anything, but you get the point.
Have you considered that this could be just a bog standard corporate promotion + re-org and that you're reading too much into things?
Now, to be clear, the focus should not be on the person. Instead the many corporate strategies in play here. GitHub just got slotted into the person who overlooks Azure SDK development.
He said after spending several hours drawing focus to the person, including by name in the very previous breath.
Also, Nat reported directly to ScottGu whose purview is literally all of Azure and then some. Don't you think that's a closer relationship to Azure than someone who "overlooks Azure SDK development"?
"The mission of the Microsoft Developer Division is to earn the trust and love of developers across all languages and platforms and make them successful as they build the applications of the future. DevDiv today includes our developer tools and services including Visual Studio, Visual Studio Code, NET and C#, TypeScript, and the OpenJDK. Our Azure Developer SDKs, as well as our Azure Application Development PaS and Serverless offerings (including our Azure App Services, Functions, Logic Apps, API Management, Dapr, Redis Cache, Spring Cloud services, etc.) are also part of this organization."
First Google: When Google started to favor Go, he quit.
Then Dropbox: Quit after the walrus operator drama.
Both OSS names seem quite corporate-oriented to me. How would they prevent OSS destruction?
Not the impression I got after the hot reload disaster. I'm the person who raised the initial GitHub issue, and I talked to a handful of people high up in DevDiv off-the-record at the time.
People were very unhappy with the decision internally, concerns were raised, and she still went ahead with a decision that showed very poor judgment.
While the recent hot reload was super disappointing and a larger organization failure, I can't say enough good things about Julia as a leader. She is incredibly developer-focused, smart, and approachable. She is everything I would want to see in a CVP / President, and a fantastic track record of both people and product.
I unfortunately have far more mixed feelings.
I've found the hot reload fiasco to be representative of a pattern of decisions coming out of Julia's leadership org. This is not the first casualty, although it was the most visible.
I did not find her to be approachable either, surface friendly and professional, to be clear, but not approachable; I would however give the strong caveats that this is obviously a subjective opinion likely biased due to professional disagreement.
To try and be additionally fair, I do not think these are unique qualities to a specific (V)P, just that I often find leadership at that level to be disconnected and have an agenda that doesn't sit well with me even if I may see the rationale. Most people I would like to see in CVP/President roles are not in (and often do not seek) those positions.
Maybe it was an evil scheme to sell more VS licenses, but they've at least backtracked and the functionality has been restored for other clients.
I am not.
I want to use tools built by people who are paid and supported. I don’t care if it’s commercial or OSS.
I want to pay for my lunch.
I want my interests and the person making my lunch to have an aligned interest in making me a good lunch.
With that, I actually like that Julia focuses on revenue, but I hated the sudden decision to remove dotnet watch.
I thought it was a stupid and pointless distraction to a bigger cloud strategy.
I’m not saying Microsoft needs to kill Visual Studio, but they should start talking about a DNR at some point in the future.
I hope this promotion will make it easier for her to focus on the right revenue streams so she’ll feel less compelled to save legacy revenue streams.
She needs to focus on making it easy to make and deploy OSS software. Everything will fall into place and the revenue opportunities will be there.
Microsoft has incredible people in their R&D. Cloud based tools will make it a lot easier to take the fruit of their research and bring it to market so much faster.
There’s so much opportunity for amazing new products that can and should be billed monthly (or by usage) on my employer’s Azure/GitHub account.
Just stop hanging to the old software licensing model. IT organizations loathe software licensing game Microsoft insists on playing, but we will piss money away on cloud services and SaaS solutions.
I hate this phrase. I'll pay for my lunch but I need to know what I'm actually eating. I want to be allowed to add seasoning, pick out hairs, reheat it at home.
Paying for software and the licensing terms are independent concepts.
We pay for OSS software for the projects where we find it advantages for us to have access to and contribute to the source code. We customize it, we fix bugs but also benefit from bug fixes done by the full-time developers who we pay to support it. We also control how it’s hosted.
We also use and license a bunch of other software where we never want access to its source control. We don’t care if it’s closed source and sometimes we prefer that we don’t host it and manage the IT resources.
While I might not actually want to immediately inspect the source of software we rely on, I might need to later on. We might have artistic differences to the direction of the product. We might need to change or adapt it after we have grown. The pricing structure might change dramatically The SaaS might get bought, retired, hacked, DDoSsed. International law might change meaning we can't use it due to its servers' locations (eg GDPR hassles). Our customers might need security audits that the service is unwilling to go through for us.
The reasons for possibly needing to spin up your own instance of the software are broad and dynamic. And they're not stretches. I've migrated to self-hosted versions of things for more than one of these reasons. It seems odd that you would say you'd "never" want that sort of freedom.
Don't build your castle on somebody else's land, and all that.
I don’t value autonomy and independence for fungible services that are distractions to our mission. For those, we prefer SaaS solutions.
Not everything is part of your castle.
She was one of the major reasons I left Microsoft. Good memes.