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Comment by spicyramen | Hacker News Reader

This may be unrealistic in our life time. I have 2 kids, 1 toddler and 1 newborn, i can't imagine biking, using public transportation or anything similar when going to doctor, grocery shopping, etc.

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That's because so much of the US is built around suburban sprawl and is incredibly hostile to anyone not in a car.

I'd recommend the youtube channel "Not Just Bikes", a guy who moved from Canada to the Netherlands. It's perfectly normal over there to do everything you said is unrealistic.

Imagine not having to chaperone your kids around until they're old enough to drive. In much of the US, this is unthinkable, and it takes a large mental toll on parents, but in the Netherlands, it's not uncommon for elementary schoolers to bike to and from school, friends houses, even riding public transit on their own.

In much of the US, your kids can be taken by social services for this, even if it was perfectly safe for them to do so. And even if it's legal to let your kids be fairly independent, it doesn't matter when you have to fight to get them back (very much "you can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride").

It's depressing just how far we've fallen under the guise of "protect the children".

> it's not uncommon for elementary schoolers to bike to and from school, friends houses, even riding public transit on their own.

I did all of these things when I was in elementary school in the late 70's, and biking without a helmet no less. Hours and hours with no adult supervision, biking all over town.

I even went to an theme park with my sister, without parents when we were 9 and 11 - took multiple buses to get there about an hour from my house. We got lost on the way home and didn't know which bus to get on. Somebody helped us and we were fine.

Can you imagine the outrage nowadays if such a thing took place.

No, that's incorrect I live in Orange county by far one of the best places for bikes and pedestrians and again I can tell you I won't use public transportation.

I feel you. Father of 3 here. My two year old always just runs as far as fast as he can pretty much whenever he gets a chance. Won't stay in the stroller either. Putting him in a carseat is much easier. Just went on a flight the other day with the kids and chasing him around the airport wasn't easy, although in the end it was somewhat manageable.

Car travel with kids is way easier compared to other methods.

We took the kids to Paris a while back and carting the stroller up and down the stairs to the metro was a huge pain.

Perhaps your child runs when he gets the chance because he doesn't have enough chances with all the time spent strapped in a car seat or a stroller?

You clearly have no kids

I have two kids and can't imagine forcing them into a car seat at least twice a day. Our walks around our neighborhood are some of our best time together. On the way to school they get exercise, run into friends, and build their autonomy by leading. We walk to the doctor. We walk to the grocery store. Find yourself a built environment that frees you from the shackles of a car.

It's definitely possible; if you talk to parents who live in cities they'll generally be happy to describe how they do it.

(Raised two kids from 0 to 5y and 7y without a car. Started splitting a car about 6 months ago when we had a third child. Lots of walking, double decker stroller, bus, subway, and bike trailer.)

Many things are possible, but I might not like doing them. It's totally fine for someone to not want cars and not use them. But it's too far to say nobody should be using them, no matter what. Not implying you said that (I know you just commented on the "unrealistic" part), but just referring to the general theme here.

I personally love driving. Since I was a kid, I always wanted to drive cars and even now, I enjoy the feeling of driving a car. One can argue about whether it's the best mode of transport, etc. but for me (and many like me), it's a pleasure of life.

Let's try to stop people from carrying assault weapons before we move to cars?

Cars directly kill 3x the amount of people by firearm homicide (in the US), along with an alarming increase in pedestrian deaths. Not saying we should ban cars everywhere or anything like that, but the status quo is not good enough.

I could have been more clear. The comparison to firearms was more to say it's really hard to stop people from doing things they like and want to do, even if they come at a cost to society. At least cars add to productivity and quality of life, while firearms don't (imo).

> it's too far to say nobody should be using them, no matter what. Not implying you said that (I know you just commented on the "unrealistic" part), but just referring to the general theme here.

What comments express that "general theme"? Is it possible that's a preconceived notion?

I was referring to "... cars aren’t allowed in major cities". In general, I don't think it's particularly controversial to say that some proponents of self-driving cars think human drivers are terrible and need to be taken off the roads.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you meant that people with environmental concerns were saying it, which I rarely see. Yes, agreed, self-driving proponents do say it with some frequency.

Big brother / Tesla / Waymo will do your driving, will do it better than you. Just sit back.

I personally love shooting sports. Since I was a kid, I always wanted to participate in shooting sports and even now, I enjoy the feeling of making a great shot. One can argue about whether it's the best mode of entertainment, etc. but for me (and many like me), it's a pleasure of life.

Let's try to stop people from operating heavy machinery which kills many multiples of people before we move to guns?

Note: I am personally pro individual car and gun ownership, just wanting to show you an alternate take on your statement. Personally I'm way more likely to die because of an incompetent driver than someone shooting me, so if I really wanted to reduce the risk of harm coming to me I'd prefer if we made it way more difficult to operate a car in public.

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