Common Bean Myths (2006) | Hacker News Reader

Common Bean Myths (2006)

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64 pointsnkurz39 comments

An old timer told me to soak beans until they stop foaming (producing bubbles), which takes about 3 days. I disregarded it then, but years later experimented with adding sourdough starter to the soak in an attempt to break down some of the indigestible starches. This lead me on a wild experimental phase of reading up on the lacto-fermention process. The Weston Price Foundation talks a lot about the problems of "anti-nutrients" like phytic acid and enzyme prohibitors in beans and grains. A preferment before cooking seems to eliminate these to the point where a final pressure cooking removes the rest. Drain the water, or slop some of the soak water in the next batch of beans to inoculate.

I have found that if I let the soak go too long that a good deal of lactic acid builds up in the beans which causes them to take longer to cook. Rinsing well and then adding a 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda seems to neutralize the added acidity. The beans are smooth inside and have a distinctly greater umami flavor, likely due to some protein breakdown into amino acids.

Fun stuff.

So wait, what would your quick & dirty advice be for the overall simplest way to achieve decent beans? I soak pintos (from the giant Walmart 20lb bags) overnight and into the instant pot for 22mins, but have noticed the same thing where if I get lazy and let them soak for almost 24hrs before cooking, they tend to come out way too firm and not satisfying at all. Wasn’t sure if it was just my imagination

For decent tasting beans don’t soak them at all, clean and boil them normally with some salt or bullion. Never soak your beans if you want them to taste good.

I eat a lot of beans, and not soaking the beans has always ended up giving me gas. Do you not experience this?

As for flavor, I can't recall having more flavor coming from not soaking the beans. In fact I get more umami richness from a long soak.

Yes and soaking scientifically doesn't affect it either.

>Gray and his colleagues developed a method for extracting most of the alpha-galactosides from beans. The beans are boiled for three minutes (effectively killing the bean and allowing the sugars to pass through the cell walls), then allowed to stand for two hours. That water is poured off and the beans are covered and soaked for another two hours. Then they’re drained, covered and soaked another two hours before being drained and rinsed a final time.

>This method succeeded in ridding the beans of 90% of the troublesome sugars, but as you might expect, there was a side effect. “I used to do this blanch-soak method all the time at home and it works very nicely,” Gray says. “The one thing people who ate dinner with us have noted is that you do lose some flavor.”

>What’s more -- without going into details of what they measured and how -- suffice it to say that even with almost all of the alpha-galactosides gone, there wasn’t a consistent marked decrease in human flatulence.

>“We reduced the alpha-galactoside content by 90% but we haven’t done anything to dietary fiber,” says Gray, “and dietary fiber produces similar effects.”

https://www.latimes.com/food/dailydish/la-dd-dont-soak-dried...

Do you notice any improvement from soaking them overnight to just cooking them slightly longer in the instant pot?

My first suggestion would be to cook it longer than 22 minutes. Instapots only go up to around 9 lbs of pressure on high, from what I read, so any pressure cooking recipe that is expecting a 10-15 lb pressure stove top cooker will need some extra time added. I cook my pintos and red beans for 30 minutes.

I would add a 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda to the water. I don't reuse my soak water, and I don't salt my water until after they have cooked. I may experiment with adding salt beforehand later, but I suspect that I'll need to add salt to the soak water too for this method.

Adding garlic and bay leafs are nice, but not necessary, as is an onion. For red beans I often blacken an onion on the stove and then throw it in whole in the pot with the beans.

Regarding the anti-nutrient thing, I recall reading that letting the beans (or grains) sprout will also break some of those down. I tried it once with some chickpeas and it does give them an interesting flavor, although it's a bit of a hassle and I haven't bothered to do it again.

This lines up really well with other fermentation techniques like malting grain for eg beer/liquor.

It wouldn’t be surprising at all if it has similar benefits for other hard to digest sugar sources like beans

In the last year my perception of beans has changed a lot, mainly because I started getting beans from Rancho Gordo which are supposedly very fresh. The claim is that using recently-harvested beans will give you better results than you can get with most dry beans that are available. I have no idea what typical harvest-to-consumption times are for Goya or other brands like that, the Rancho Gordo beans are supposed to be no older than 1 year.

I'm pretty convinced by this argument. In general I find that fresher produce is significantly better when you can get it. In NYC it's hard to come by except for at food co-ops and farmers markets. I've also bought very freshly-milled flour last year during the Great Sourdough Obsession and it was significantly more flavourful and better behaved. I wonder if the real issue with cooking beans is simply one of freshness but other than the Rancho Gordo claims I have yet to see other mention of this.

I found this guide [0] from Serious Eats to be very informative; I've made beans a few times using their advice and every time they've come out great.

Salt your beans, soak 'em if you want to/have time and you're not making beans with thin skins like black beans, add some aromatics and fat and you're well on your way to a delicious meal. Save the cooked bean broth and use it as veggie stock!

0: https://www.seriouseats.com/beans-legumes-pulses-varieties-r...

Have you ever tried not soaking it? Tastes much better, I never soak anymore. Didn’t make them cook faster, made them taste worst.

> There’s always controversy surrounding beans.

Another topic to avoid this Thanksgiving!

Why did I think for a second this was going to be about java beans

the (2006) in the title brought back EJB 3.0 memories.

I was confused when reading the first few sentences of the article, how is it related to java?

I thought it was gonna be about coffee beans which is why I held off looking until I was tired.

One thing I read once about beans is that their effects on you have to do with whether you have the right enzymes for them. I grew up eating rice and beans every single day of my life, and never had issues with flatulence associated with eating beans.

A second, more important note is that an Instant Pot may be the best way to cook beans. I toss in cold, dry beans and water, and they're ready to eat in about 30m or so

Not only ready but softer than any other method of cooking can get them (at least when I’m the chef)

I think there is something about the bacterial population in your gut building up (like those bacterial population curves) or gaining the genetic material to process beans. I started eating a lot more beans some months ago. At first it was horrible, I was a fart machine. By the third month on beans, I barely had any flatulence.

This, and if I do have farting spells I don’t think it usually smells that bad

Maybe I’m just flattering myself though

I eat beans everyday as part of my diet and I love my instant pot! For sure the best way to cook beans!

That was a lot to take in, with no hard conclusions on some aspects.

I usually soak beans using the quick soak method (put washed beans in boiling water, turn off the heat, cover and let it sit for an hour or two) or an overnight soak. I throw the soaking water (this is to get rid of phytic acid/antinutrients) and then use fresh water to cook the beans in a pressure cooker.

The issue with foam happens only with some beans or lentils. For those, either dry roast them first before cooking in water or scoop off the foam for a minute while it’s on full boil and foaming.

Some beans can be cooked without soaking. But I’ve found that chickpeas do come out better with a soak. Same for kidney beans too, but they don’t require as much soaking.

Love the line: "Russ Parsons, author of “How to Read a French Fry”, says “Not soaking them [beans], really improves the flavor I’ve found.”"

Thanks nkurz for posting. Great read.

PSA: don't eat beans while they are cooking, you will get stomach cramps and vomit.

Probably the toxin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytohaemagglutinin which requires cooking the beans for a while to destroy

were they kidney beans?

Yes, they were.

it mentions it in the article but they are particularly toxic when uncooked

One thing I've learned is that freezing and reheating my chili dramatically reduces the resulting intestinal discomfort and gas production. I have no idea why.

It may have to do with resistant starches?

I'm inclined to agree, but I'm curious, do you know how freezing/thawing breaks down those starches?

The Chicago sculpture The Bean (despite its appearance) is not a giant blob of solder.

Everyone talks about how cool the sculpture is but no one mentions the worlds largest soldering iron that was used to make it

Or the giant person holding that iron wrong in a stock photo.

It’s made by the same guy who bought the rights to vantablack. Never call it cloud gate: call it the bean.

Would love a TLDR after all that analysis: it's still a lot to digest (pun intended).

My suggestion: don’t soak your beans, cook them with saline, if you can use an instant pot or pressure cooker do it.

If you want there to be less calories leave it out abs let it cool then when you reheat it you’ll get less calories: some of the carbs are now resistant starches.

How long do you keep them in the instant pot?

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