Ask HN: Consumer WiFi router options in 2021

The most comprehensive wifi/router AP site I've found is by a guy named Jerry Jongerius.

https://www.duckware.com/tech/wifi-in-the-us.html

Not just recommendations but incredibly detailed explanations. Recommendations can be found in Appendix B:

https://www.duckware.com/tech/wifi-in-the-us.html#routers

Wow. Thank you for posting this. It looks like a fantastic resource

I am a big fan of Ubiquiti. I live in an 1850s farmhouse that has a tremendous number of nails in the walls on the first floor, so Wi-Fi waves don't penetrate well. On top of that, when they worked on the wall between the kitchen and the wood shed they put a layer of metal foil in so that the penetration through that wall is close to zero. We also have an armoire with a mirrored back that blocks waves from the rest of the house.

We have 4 access points.

In summer we move an access point from the kitchen to the woodshed (with a powerline internet adapter). Tablets work in the kitchen but it would be ideal if we added one more access point to the bedroom above the kitchen.

It's no accident that Apple is not making a WiFi access point because "just works" is an impossibility. If you believe in the apple aesthetic you probably also feel entitled to install your access point at whatever corner of the house your cable box is installed, despite what physics has to say about it.

The awful truth is that different WiFi chipsets are just barely compatible with each other, high-end access points are chock full of workarounds for flaws in WiFi clients, and companies like Cisco and Ubiquiti have lots of patents on those workarounds. They have a "mutual assured destruction" policy that they don't sue each other, but they make sure that routers from companies like ASUS work only occasionally.

Powerline internet adapters are your friends. Their weakness, relative to modern switched ethernet, is that all the devices share a common bus. For best performance, use just two powerline adapters to make a "point-to-point" link to support one far-flung location.

For what it’s worth I bought a late model AirPort Extreme shortly before they were discontinued and the thing happily chugs along in the upstairs corner of my house where the cable box is at. Other than the far side of the house on the outside where it has to beam through 3 walls I have zero issues with coverage over the entirety of the interior and front/backyard of my suburban house. Never have to reboot it either. It really does “just work” and it’s a shame they discontinued it.

Seconded for Ubiquiti. I've had a Dream Machine Pro (firewall/router), a couple of their USW-Pro-24/48-PoE switches, and some of their AP's (U6-LR mostly) for a few months now and everything seems to work well.

I went for the Ubiquiti stuff because it seemed like it would be fairly easy to configure and it was... and I don't have a lot of experience with configuring routers/firewalls. Ubiquiti's stuff was also less expensive than some Cisco gear I was looking at, though that may be more because of my location (Poland) than anything else. Also, because I'm in Poland, houses are constructed largely out of brick, concrete, and rebar. So, reasonably powerful AP's were needed and the U6-LR's seem to fit the bill.

My only issue with the Ubiquiti stuff is that everyone admonishes everyone else to not automatically upgrade due to some pretty serious issues from firmware upgrades from Ubiquiti in the past. However, because someone will always have issues with an upgrade, it can be hard to know for sure if the latest firmware is going cause real issues or not.

PC Engines ALIX platform is very robust, combined with open source routers from OpenWRT or opnsense https://www.pcengines.ch/alix.htm

https://opnsense.org/

https://openwrt.org/

any flavor of linux imaginable can also be loaded onto the ALIX platform, if you want more granular control (router solicitations, nat subnetting, etc...)

2.4 and 5ghz can be added with mini pci cards or with inexpensive openWRT devices connected via traditional cat6, or even USB dongles if your priority for 2.4 is low.

The PC Engines site says ALIX is EOL, and recommends using apu2 instead. Is there a particular reason you would recommend ALIX over apu2?

I can vouch for the apu2. I've operated many of them and never seen one crash due to an hardware issue.

Couple it with 2x wle600vx wifi radio for dual band wifi and openwrt or another Linux based router is. No 5ghz driver on *bsd.

The alix is the predecessor and is EOL.

Unfortunately, the apu2 is out of stock from pc-engine main shop due to chip shortage.

You might be lucky and find a reseller with some stocks.

Been using Ubiquiti access points and their Amplifi consumer hardware.

Their product range itself is hit and miss. For example their first AC access points weren't well received, their second range (AC Pro onwards) were very well received.

Their routers are considered so-so, their UDM Pro in particular has had a range of issues. So really it depends on what product you buy rather than the product range as a whole.

I personally buy their AC Pro access points and their LR versions and run their controller app in Docker. You can buy a hardware version of their controller too for $100 or so.

It's rock solid and works well, although I am seeing access points failing 4-5 years in due to a manufacturing issue on some. They're replacing them out of warranty though. One other issue is that their software updates seem to have poor quality control so you will ocassionally get updates which perform poorly and have to be rolled back. I'd suggest keeping auto updates off and updating manually.

All in all, given the cost vs Ruckus, Aruba, Cisco you get pretty good bang for your back.

Their Amplifi range works well - one pack (router + 2 access points) covered a large brick house with full signal across the board. I've heard no complaints from the family member I set that up for.

I have a Netgear Orbi mesh setup. It’s a router (Rbr750) and 2 satellites although I’m using them in access-point mode with a Fritzbox router (from my isp).

My apartment it small but I was sick of having spotty Wifi everywhere I’ve lived. Also the ADSL point was in the worst possible location and I can’t wire any Ethernet up so I wanted something decent. I could have done with only one satellite but my Synology NAS needs a wired connection (can’t use a WiFi dongle) so I bought a third specifically for that.

It’s been relatively pain free and reliable. I get 700/200mbps over WiFi on a good day (on non WiFi 6 devices). My ADSL is only 60MBps so it certainly handles that fine.

I’d rather set-it-and-forget-it so for that they’ve been good. Netgear do have some annoying subscription services (firewall?) but I don’t pay for that. Their interface and usability is so-so and the setup was frustrating but it’s been solid since then.

I spent a lot of time looking at options, and like you I noticed that nothing stood out. Every product had a compromise of some sort. Like I mentioned, I’d rather have something that I don’t have to think about too much rather than tinker with settings so I’m that regard I’m happy and would recommend checking them out.

I just recently went through this myself. Bottom line up front: I ended up with two Belkin RT3200s for $100 a piece (which are just rebranded Linksys E8450) which I flashed OpenWRT onto. They're one of the few WiFi 6 routers that are supported by OpenWRT at this time). One as the main router (handled the DHCP and was connected to my modem) and the other as an access point. I probably would have gone with a PC Engines device like commenter nimbius suggested if the wait time wasn't so long.

Depending on your familiarity with networking (or willingness to learn) will really influence what recommendations you'll get. For example that linked HN thread the author said "I want something simple (no DIY, no OpenWRT), I want my privacy, and no PoE." Are you under the same constraints?

Perhaps you can also clarify a bit more about your use-case. You stated WiFi 6 is desirable but not a must-have. Do you mean WiFi 6E (i.e. 6gHz) or just 6 (i.e. a flavor of 5gHz oftentimes referred to as 802.11ax or just AX). What about other factors? You mentioned mesh or "beefy." Are you in a densely populated area where you're fighting over the airwaves with your neighbors? Are your walls all made of concrete where signal penetration is poor? Or perhaps you just have a lot of square footage to cover? The first two are probably better served by more access points rather than "beefy-ness."

> Things I’m observing from reviews and comments around the internet: Mesh isn’t ready and can have mixed performance on satellites.

Advantages of mesh: they are easier to setup than a DIY system. Disadvantage: your air-gapped mesh router is basically a glorified range extender and comes with the same fundamental limitation that it's got to communicate with the main unit through WiFi. I tested some Google home mesh routers for example and they topped out at ~300 Mbit/s even 6 feet apart (plus they required privacy concessions for more "advanced" features like setting up a guest network).

> ASUS has quality control and customer support issues, but if you’re lucky they can be good.

I'm afraid that seems to be a common theme among other brands as well.

> Ubiquiti sounds good or terrible depending on who you listen to.

Generally I found the consensus to be they at least used to be quite good, now it's debatable especially since you stated privacy as a concern (see many HN submissions about it, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21436356 for example).

I move a lot. I’ve been in big houses and small apartments the last decade off and on. That’s why mesh or beefy (think I can make that term stick?) doesn’t matter too much to me right now.

My most important devices are always hardwired, but I still have WiFi needs.

WiFi 6E would be best but not at the cost of great 2.4 and 5Ghz performance.

I’m not opposed to mucking with networking, I’m technical, but also I can’t do it all the time. I’ve got day jobs. I mostly want to spend a sufficient time setting it up and then mostly leaving it alone besides painless firmware updates.

Thanks for your answer. I’m going to give Ubiquiti another look despite the concerns.

At the end of it all you'll probably be happy with Ubiquiti. Pretty flexible spread of products and features that you could likely adapt to a change of living arrangements without major upheaval. For myself I wasn't quite willing to pay the price delta since I didn't need most of their feature set.

When I was looking a few months ago WiFi 6E seemed too new, e.g. higher costs for the (relatively) few supported devices.

> I’m not opposed to mucking with networking, I’m technical, but also I can’t do it all the time. I’ve got day jobs. I mostly want to spend a sufficient time setting it up and then mostly leaving it alone besides painless firmware updates.

I felt similarly. Spent a while on the setup but I've tried not to (have to) touch it since.

Best of luck!

+1 to Ubiquiti. Just don't get their consumer gear its completely different products, get the pro gear.

I move a lot too and own the security gateway (just a NAT/controller with one ethernet port in and one ethernet port out) and then have 2 ap in my apartment. We only really need one but my partner and i each owned an AP when we moved in together. We keep them next to one desks for optimal WFH performance, and one in living room for use there. Def overkill, but our current apartment has metal in walls so it's nice.

They have a great progressively expandable system, so it'll age with you. They support mesh for the AP or hardwired, so you can upgrade/reuse them as living situations/wire access changes.

I use a Ubiquiti Dream Machine as the main router, connected to my ISP modem which is in bridge mode. I then have a couple of UniFi access points in key places around the house, wired with ethernet back to the Dream Machine, using PoE injectors because I haven't yet needed a switch.

Honestly, it works great. Getting IPv6 functional was a case of checking one box in the UI, I can monitor and control tons of stuff in the iOS app (although an account is needed for that AFAIK), and I have zero complaints about LAN or WAN performance. I very rarely have to do anything with it, sans logging in to update the firmware on the devices.

Having said that, I used to be stuck with an ISP router that forced its own NAT (no bridge mode), and that itself was behind carrier-grade NAT. With that setup, the Dream Machine didn't work so well... although in fairness, nor did other devices and protocols relying on LAN discovery like Sonos or AirPlay. But the Dream Machine setup process specifically was really bad; It performed an Internet connection check that clearly couldn't work its way through the multiple NAT layers. I had to connect it to someone else's DSL just to get past the Internet setup screen, which I don't expect from a device that costs hundreds of dollars.

So, pros and cons. Overall, the consensus online seemed to be that the Security Gateways are better devices software-wise, but that they also just can't keep up with modern Internet speeds. So I'm happy.

Routers/all-in-one boxes: have you looked at avm.de[1]? I have an older Fritzbox (no desire for WiFi 6 at this point). Installed by my ISP, who are all about wireless and know what they're doing. Gets frequent security updates still.

Ubiquiti was good until they had a change of management some years ago. Now, they have a reputation for Lenovo-class (or Wacom-class[2]) spyware.

For consumer wi-fi access points, Cambium cnPilot on the high end, TP-Link or maybe Grandstream on the disposable end. Mikrotik might be OK if they have fixed their security issues (#TODO: research, & update firmware on my mAPlite).

For my household (one, sometimes 2 people, about 5 devices connected to wi-fi), I'd just get TP-link. With four or more people in the house, Cambium.

1. https://en.avm.de/

2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22247292

>Why is Apple not selling a $400 router that just works

At one point I thought Apple TV will come with router function given the AirPort team has folded into Apple TV's team. And then you can stick them around for mesh.

That was 2016? But then it never happened.

The closest thing to an Apple Airport experience is Eero. But they are now under Amazon.

Surprised no one mentioned used enterprise gear that fits most requirements without being unwieldly: Ruckus Wireless. You're able to flash any enterprise hardware that is a part of a large deployment with a firmware designed for a single AP (Ruckus unleashed)

Openwrt on a separate device and a commercial offering (asus) to provide the wifi 6 part. Means two devices but it’s the only Route that I’ve had luck with. I’d probably try to get a wifi 6e device now

Apple used to sell access point/routers. I think you needed a mac to configure them though.

If you can wire all your main devices (desktops, tv boxes, where you use your laptop most) that reduces the wifi needs to actually portable devices, and things go better. Running multiple consumer routers in access point mode, with a wired network behind them can work pretty well as long as your clients can roam reasonably. Buy something on the OpenWRT support list, even if you don't plan to use it.

Ubiquiti uber alles.

Their amplifi alien line really rips, but harder to mesh (more expensive) than the other ubiquiti gear. The alien increased my 3fl away signal dramatically, and along with fios gigabit it's great.

My progression was apple airport extreme -> google fi -> amplifi. The airport is still my time capsule, google fi is in a drawer.

How does amplify compare to ubiquity?

Ubiquiti makes the Amplifi line.

Synology Router RT2600ac [0]. Great performance. Enough goodies for power users and sometimes Amazon has it on sale.

[0] https://www.synology.com/en-global/products/RT2600ac

I've had a good experience and zero issues with my Turris Omnia. It gets pretty regular updates too.

https://www.turris.com/en/omnia/overview/

I am a fan of Peplink products.

I recommend https://www.peplink.com/products/ap-one-ax/

If you live somewhere where they sell Eero, I can warmly recommend their product. It’s very good.

Ubiquiti amplifi has treated us well.