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Comment by chailatte | Hacker News Reader

I would say that's too optimistic. What I am describing of the 80% is simply what is going on with the unemployed/underemployed (~16% today), the people on food stamps (12% today) and the retired collecting SS without savings (~3% today). I don't see why in 20 years, these people would have their welfare increased to such a level that they can live a middle class life (a house, nice car, good school for their kids, money to travel, visit to good restaurants)

Unless you're saying the 80% kidnaps the government and made the rich and the middle class give them more money. Which I can't see without massive civil upheavel and the population reduction of those 80%.

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If, and that's a big if, you aren't a spendthrift you can live relatively comfortably on European levels of welfare. That means living in a modern apartment, car that gets you there (or public transport, which is actually feasible in Europe), some travel. Schooling is provided by the government mostly, and good schooling is not that much more costly to provide than bad schooling. Move to Finland or Sweden, if that's your priority.

The food in good restaurants is not really better than in adequate restaurants. Visiting a fancy restaurant is more of a positional good to show and enjoy your social status.

Oh, and before I forget: Those central and northern Europeans countries are not the countries that are currently in agonizing debt.

Most European countries (just like the US) have been living beyond their means, so I only could see a decreasing living standard from here on out. Look at what happened to inner cities London as a precursor to most European cities.

As for the few rich central/northern European countries, I do agree that those on welfare will live nicely compared to anywhere else in the world. Sadly, its quite hard for normal people to emigrate to those countries. And they won't be immune to the collapse if they keep propping up the other failing countries.

I would say the fancy food phenomenon is only specific to US; good food can be found anywhere in Asia and Europe. In US, the difference would be between Denny's and a michelin starred restaurant.

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