Crypto "expert" here. We will have a catastrophic crash, it's normal and natural. But, the tech is here to stay and is 100x better than existing solutions. Crypto is changing the world, one crash at a time :)
The only time I can ever see a cryptocurrency being worth it is if you do not have any central authority you can trust. If we ever get to the point where you can't trust the courts to somewhat reasonably protect your money, then I think we have worse problems. Especially since you wouldn't have any physical protection from the legal system.
Anonymity might seem redundant to you and other people who "have nothing to hide". However, in a slightly more dystopian reality -e.g. when we are forced to use CBDCs- the government might choose to block you from using your hard earned money because you posted a criticism of the president on twitter.
Um, I don't really see how cryptocurrencies are going to help you much when that same government just tosses you in jail instead. In fact, there are governments in our present reality that will throw people in jail for saying the wrong thing on twitter, so that really isn't an outrageous thing to imagine.
> in a slightly more dystopian reality -e.g. when we are forced to use CBDCs- the government might choose to block you from using your hard earned money because you posted a criticism of the president on twitter.
I love when people out themselves as having never worked on anything significant. Yeah, sure, for your pocket change, I'm sure you can reasonably protect it. For any significant transaction, I want the ability to reclaim my money if the other side turns out to be fraudulent.
> the other side turns out to be fraudulent Crypto is not here to protect you from falling victim to fraud. It is here to replace a faulty and completely outdated financial infrastructure. The same laws against criminals apply whether they use crypto or not.
If you believe that financial regulations are the "nanny", you probably only have a child-like understanding of things. In that case, condescension is warranted. It means you don't have the experience needed to comment seriously on the topic.
> It is here to replace a faulty and completely outdated financial infrastructure
Yet it performs worse in every measurable metric. How many transactions per second can Bitcoin sustain? Four, lmao.
> The same laws against criminals apply whether they use crypto or not.
One does not need to be a criminal for proper regulations to apply. Again, this is the immaturity of people commenting.
Have you heard of the term "accredited investor"? That's 100% a "nanny" regulation that excludes poorer people from opportunities.
> Yet it performs worse in every measurable metric.
You jump to arbitrary conclusions. You probably did the same when it comes to Bitcoin that's why you say factually wrong things like in the comment. For example, do you understand what near-instant settlement means?
> One does not need to be a criminal for proper regulations to apply.
Ad hominem while stating the obvious. Yikes.
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I'm late to this, but can you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN and stop breaking the site guidelines? You did so extremely badly in this thread. "I love when people out themselves as having never worked on anything significant" is a bannable offense just by itself. No more of that, please.
I don't want to ban you, but we need you to post in the intended spirit of the site. If you'd review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules going forward, we'd appreciate it.
The harm that bad information causes is incalculable, so no, I won't stop commenting on stupid posts. Perhaps you need to evaluate your responsibility to the world at large, and your role in supporting disinformation.
If someone believes that banking regulations are the "nanny", they shouldn't be allowed to comment on adult topics. Sorry not sorry.
Does it matter to you that you do more harm than my flames?
YCombinator just funded arguably the worst startup in history, Skip the Interview. Maybe you could do with a little dissension?
> has no insurance
What do you mean by that? Insurances are services not protocols
> no safeguard against volatility
That’s a weird thing to say in a thread about stablecoins
And after ten years, there isn't one actual application of cryptocurrencies except for speculation and crime.
I'd say this criticism was mostly fair up until about two years ago. Within the last two years, the actual applications have flourished.
For example, have a look through this list https://defipulse.com/
If you remain skeptical, that's fair. The good news is, Ethereum is reaching adulthood this year by switching to proof of stake and launching the web of layer-2 networks. Within another three years or so, the "actual applications" will become so ubiquitous as to be impossible to ignore.
I have been full-time in crypto for years. I could write you a 10,000-word essay on crypto's promising use cases. But, I believe that you, and many others on HN, don't want to hear it.
That's too bad, because you guys grew up on sci-fi and rigor, and now you're ignoring that crypto is both rigorously successful and cypherpunk sci-fi come to life.
By the way, I could ALSO write you 10,000 word salad about how commonly found stones can solve the wrongs in modern finance. That doesn’t say anything about common stones. It just says modern finance is FLAWED.
And I suspect you know that, which means... ;)
On the other side of the aisle, we have people pointing out that there aren't any interesting dApps, with the reply being:
"Sure there are! Here's a list dApps that are just more layers on moving cryptocurrency!"
That's only interesting if you assume the blockchain is valuable and interesting. This is a circular argument. Do you have anything better?
"Sure do! Here's a list dApps that are just more layers on moving cryptocurrency! Register on this site to hear me talk about NFTs!"
Is that "bad faith" too? I don't think so. There's a divide though, and it's a tiresome one. Some of us think the emperor has no clothes. Others think they are the best clothes ever. We probably all need our eyes checked.
You're already backpedaling from something you haven't even said yet. That speaks volumes.
I am widely published inside the crypto industry on twitter and on a few podcasts over the years. For example, here is an episode on the many present & future uses of NFTs (episode requires a free Real Vision crypto account)
https://www.realvision.com/shows/the-interview-crypto/videos...
No, they were exactly right. In ten years, cryptocurrencies have produced nothing of value except speculation. This is like saying the Dutch that didn't sell their homes to buy into the tulip bulb craze were wrong. Sure, people have made huge gains, like all ponzi schemes generate. Most are bagholders, though.
> even as crypto is clearly changing the world like the internet did in the 90s and mobile in the 00s.
Crypto hasn't changed a single thing about the world. There is not a single popular thing backed by crypto. Every example you gave in this thread was either weak, like that DeFi Pulse link, or just straight not even using crypto, like Eco.
When you as an expert can't even identify a popular product using crypto at it's core, it doesn't speak very highly.
> I have been full-time in crypto for years. I could write you a 10,000-word essay on crypto's promising use cases. But, I believe that you, and many others on HN, don't want to hear it.
I am an actual cryptographer and would love to read world salad like that.
> That's too bad, because you guys grew up on sci-fi and rigor, and now you're ignoring that crypto is both rigorously successful and cypherpunk sci-fi come to life.
Stop. Libertarian dorks that don't understand the history of finance is hardly the sci-fi we want.
I think if a self-proclaimed crypto expert gives you this link as proof of use cases, you would walk away thinking the technology was pathetic.
But busy with work (and I sold my startup 2 years ago) I went completely dark on the Crypto world. Now I'm trying to catch up with it and both DeFi and everything Layer 2 seem to be the future.
Do you have any other resources to recommend?
I'd recommend the Bankless podcast and newsletter
https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/ https://podcast.banklesshq.com/
Also the ROLLUP series from Bankless (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooIZzpOsoko)
Do you have any example of a use case with traction that serves a need not created by the existence of the cryptocurrency market itself?
Although Eco is a fully non-crypto app, it is built on top of crypto rails.
Eco offers its users greater savings rates than traditional banks by using crypto to literally cut out the middlemen.
As well, Eco accounts are not FDIC insured-- but, I think that's a temporary downside of the current regulatory landscape. It seems like there's no reason why Eco accounts couldn't be FDIC insured in the future. Happily, the benefit of cutting out the middlemen is forever.
The Eco team has written a lot about their experience disintermediating banks. I recommend their blog https://www.eco.com/blog
> a decentralized credit platform
> a decentralized exchange liquidity pool
> an open source, decentralized, non-custodial liquidity protocol
> a smart wallet with an intuitive interface built on top of popular DeFi projects
> an algorithmic money market protocol
This is a circular argument for the utility of dApps. There's nothing here for someone who isn't already interested in cryptocurrency.
Yet, I have found it useful to try and separate the fundamental innovations from the current set of assets being manipulated.
Here is a partial list of fundamental crypto innovations:
- non-custodial wallets in general to protect people from predatory institutions or governments
- smart contracts that always do what they say they'll do
- inherent global jurisdiction of blockchains, ie. borderless
- vastly reduced transaction costs to stand up and operate new, networked financial instruments and other kinds of digital asset systems (property registries, etc.)
The fact that these innovations are currently majority operated on dog money, Bitcoin, ETH, etc. is a temporary characteristic of this early stage of crypto's growth.
In the future, these same innovations will operate on everything in the economy.
For example, Tesla stock (backed by custodially-held physical shares, not synthetics) has been available on Solana for some time.
You can do that now by hiding money in your mattress. In both cases, it's not on you to protect your money, and a lot of people who are tech savvy have been failing to do so. Regular folks are going to get robbed often.
> smart contracts that always do what they say they'll do
Except when they don't, because they have a bug, and all the money is stolen.
> inherent global jurisdiction of blockchains, ie. borderless
This is only true if you are able to spend the money as cryptocurrency. Once you try converting that into fiat, you start hitting those borders really quickly.
> vastly reduced transaction costs
Except that the transaction costs are higher, on average, and especially so if you consider the fees for converting from fiat, and back to fiat.
> Tesla stock (backed by custodially-held physical shares, not synthetics) has been available on Solana for some time
Sure, but a financial institute is holding those shares. You could cut the middle-man here (the cryptocurrency) and just use the financial institution.
Traditional financial institutions also more or less shuffle USD around. Crypto is that.
Remittances - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remittance
There is a vast market for efficient, fast, and affordable methods of transferring money/wealth across political boundaries. Blockchain/crypto seems to be filling that niche for many people, myself included, without "speculation and crime" being a factor. There is no "remittance app" for it because you can do it with your pick of various widely available crypto coins and exchanges.