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Comment by dleslie | Hacker News Reader

I'm no fan of Facebook's assault on privacy and exploitation of user data; I'd rather pay for a service than be the product.

That said, Messenger Kids is a crazy good product that took off like fire among my children's classmates. Parents get to authorize all contacts and review all communication; kids get fun photo and video chat tools, with all sorts of kid-friendly filters and such, along with loads of minigames. The UI is so dead-simple that illiterate youngsters have no problem using it.

So, yah, I'm not at all surprised to learn that they target 6 year olds. _They have a product clearly intended for them_.

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In terms of usability and giving parents moderation control, I think they've done a good job. I hate Facebook, but I'll recommend messenger kids because it actually makes some effort to give parents control over what their child is doing.

I think the real conversation should be about data collection and what kind of profiles they are / aren't building. I don't think kids should be trained from age 6 onwards to think the privacy invasions being foisted on us by our current social media companies are ok. I don't mind if Facebook is using it as a "hook them early" kind of product since there's some reciprocal value, but they shouldn't be allowed to collect any data or build any profiles on kids.

> Facebook believes its app complies with COPPA.

Believes? Lol.

I'm also not really sure what everyone thinks Facebook should do about online bullying. That's not a Facebook problem. It's a society problem. If Facebook starts to monitor and analyze every interaction teens will simply find another platform because they don't want their privacy violated like that. I don't blame them.

So Facebook messenger is great because it monitors everything you say to anyone for moderation, but it’s bad because it conditions its users about how it monitors everything you say to anyone.

The article wasn’t about Messenger Kids though. If you click through to the actual slide deck that was leaked it shows that the current status quo is that Messenger Kids is the only product in the portfolio that is available for kids. The future state they envision is one in which all their products are available to kids, but tailored for those users. So that means IG and FB.

I’m a parent of a 9 year old and 7 year old. My 9 yo has Messenger Kids. I agree it’s a pretty well designed app. But it’s just messaging (and some games). It’s like the telephone. I don’t mind that. But IG and FB are different things entirely. My concern isn’t that my kid can chat with his friends. It’s in the compare and despair, the constant posting of fake versions of your perfect life to make others feel jealous, and the algorithmic promotion of outrage (sorry, I mean high engagement) content.

Why do kids even need a messenger app though ?

Seems like a pretty shit use of a kids precious time being a kid.

Mobile phones aren't just another time waster, they have actively replaced things like television and SMS. There is immense social pressure to be on these platforms, so I'd rather it was done in a safe way than forcing everyone onto some shadier platform (likely full of adults and without the barriers that Messenger Kids has).

> There is immense social pressure to be on these platforms

And the way to fix that is to give in to said pressure, which are just network effects, until everybody and all their kids are on FB or one of their platforms?

> I'd rather it was done in a safe way than forcing everyone onto some shadier platform

I wonder how most of us here managed to grow up for decades on a "not safe for children" web before we had companies like Facebook "tackle" a problem they created themselves?

As hyperbolic as that might sound, this is a discussion that needs to be had properly and doesn't just stop at the emotional appeal of "Think about the children!" but also involves what role Social Media is actually supposed to hold in society and if children should have access to it at all.

Yes, that sounds radical, but we are also living in times that present a radical shift to how societies used to function, maybe radical shifts need radical solutions.

> And the way to fix that is to give in to said pressure, which are just network effects, until everybody and all their kids are on FB or one of their platforms?

The solution is to balance your kid being ostracized while also educating them on how to be safe online. That can only come from exposure. Unless you seriously expect other kids and teenagers to not latch onto their lack of social media/phone/anything trendy and turn it into a bullying vector?

> ...

Every time a "think of the children" argument comes up, the default opinion of government is to usher in sweeping, authoritarian changes to the whole internet, e.g. ID cards required, criminalising misinformation, etc...

Messenger Kids is literally a free market solution to give parents another choice and avoid authoritarian overreach in the process. The standard NSFW web is still available for those parents who trust their kids are able to handle it. And others can totally pull their kid off if that's also preferred.

None of these options are perfect, but it's important there is the space to choose. And at least with Messenger Kids you're giving the kid balanced privacy from their parents and safety from strangers.

Because we overprotect. Kids cannot be kids. Kids must live in their own safe bubble these days. It is actually unhealthy for the children and their development.

When I was a kid, I spent most of my time with my grandparents and I was either in their garden or outside in the street with other kids.

I am honestly tired of the "think about the children" motto, or the selling of things in the name of protecting children (which it really does not do and solves nothing, or "solves" a non-issue).

Your comment could be read in favor of or against having a messaging app for kids.

It is not my business, but were it my kid, I would not necessarily mind.

Personally I would rather have the friend over and do the homework together that way instead of using a messaging app. I am old school like that. :)

In some parts of the world children were locked out of school and in-person socializing for two school years. Even playgrounds were shutdown with mixing between households prohibited. Allowing children to safely engage in digital socialization is probably better than nothing.

> Allowing children to safely engage in digital socialization is probably better than nothing.

This is debatable. It could actually be worse, but I am not too well-informed on this. Of course socialization is good, and one would think that it is better to have it digitally than to not have it at all; I would think so, too, but this may not be true, or at least not in a longer-term. I think we should allow kids to be kids and do the socializing in real life, ideally without masks so they could learn to pick up emotional cues from facial expressions and so forth. This plays a pretty important role in the children's development. I wonder what kind of effects those restrictions have had on "some" of these children. For what it is worth, I am not speaking out against the restrictions, but its effects on both children and adults make me curious.

The socialization on Messenger Kids is quite literally video chat and cooperative or competitive multiplayer games.

They play things similar to pictionary, have video chats where they can digitally dress up in fun outfits, and so on.

> For what it is worth, I am not speaking out against the restrictions

Why? If they have negatively affected child development then that's a problem that was never considered by the powers at be.

I am not not speaking against nor in favor of the restrictions, is what I really meant. :)

Because a global pandemic made it so that in many regions of the world it was _impossible_ for children to play with each other in person.

My kids, for instance, went around eight months where Covid restrictions meant that indoor gatherings with other children were verboten. Even playgrounds were closed to them for some time.

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