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Comment by snassar | Hacker News Reader

In Germany you have a probationary period of 6 months where both sides can give notice of 2 weeks without having to give a reason. The probationary period is really there to make sure that you fit the organization and that the organization fits you.

It is not usual that people don't make it through the probationary period, but it happens. If you know 5 months into a job that it is not for you and won't work out, then search for something that does. When asked why the time at X was so short, tell the hiring manager why. A place that dings you based on your honest assessment is not a place where you will want to work anyway.

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Yes, when I first got to Germany I was surprised at this but after doing it once I loved it. As an employee I had no hard feelings about just saying something wasn't a good fit within a few months of joining (I have a slightly different but similar in practice setup with a French co currently that I'm leaving after a 3m trial period). I think that it's a good way to do things & I think I reflect the consensus view here that you absolutely shouldn't feel bad about leaving a dysfunctional company. The only exception is if you were brought in with the mandate to execute a turnaround, but it doesn't sound like that's the case nor that you have the authority to do so, so don't burn yourself out trying without the power to make real changes for probably not enough compensation for the hassle

You two are discussing this as if it's specific to Germany... is it really that rare? Every tech job I've ever had in the UK (admittedly not a huge sample size) has had some kind of probationary period baked into the contract, although the exact details vary (e.g. number of months considered probation, notice period while on probation.) Are there countries where this isn't a thing?

It's not as common in the US, since most states are at will, either side always can give notice at any time for any/no reason (other than targeting protected groups / whistleblowing, etc), there's not as much point to a probationary period.

At many (well managed) US companies, there is a more formal HR process for dealing with poor performance, such as formal reviews, action plans, etc. that does not apply during the initial probationary period.

> It's not as common in the US

But culturally many companies operate that way. It's easy to fire someone within the first ~6 months; if you've been somewhere for awhile, you give longer than 6 weeks notice; and if you've been somewhere for awhile, you get severance.

I think it's common across Europe (was the same with my Estonian and now French contract) but wasn't in the US because it's "at will" hiring in most states where they can fire you anytime... so why have a contract?

What's uncommon is the period after. Most employment contracts have a 4 weeks to 3 months notice period, both for the employer and the employee. This is very different from the US and Canada, where people give a 2 week notice.

Employees never have to give a reason to leave. The benefit of probation periods for employees who want to bail early is that the notice period is shorter (it is usually 1-3 months in most european countries). Of course, the downside is that the same applies to the employer and probation periods really are for the benefit of the employer since laying off an employee is an onerous prospect in most european countries.

I know a few people who bailed out just a month or two into the job. Their reasoning was simply that it wasn't what they expected (and they wouldn't have accepted the offer if they knew that while interviewing).

Doesn't really have to be any simpler than that, and for further interviews it does allow you to make those expectations clear if the question is asked.

Also keep in mind the flip-side of this is that if you leave before 6 months, some hiring managers will see it that you "failed" your probation and the previous employer took the easy way out to let you go for sub-par performance.

Obviously it depends on the politics of a situation, but be wary of those questions that might arise, and still leave on good terms if the new place wants to confirm you weren't let go.

If a hiring manager assumes this rather than asks, good for them, I wouldn't want to have to report to them anyway.

Just to add a bit of info: German businesses typically have a 3 month notice period in both directions (though I've seen 6 months). The probation period lets either you or the employer end the employment without a fuss.

This means that it's harder to get a loan or find an apartment until you're over that period. After that, you're golden.

https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/find-a-job-in-berlin#the-p...

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