Comment by strenholme | Hacker News Reader

Comment by strenholme | Hacker News Reader

Now, I agree that MIDI 1.0 was designed for keyboard based synthesizers, and I know that complaints about MIDI latency have been around about as long as MIDI has been. So, yes, it has always been imperfect.

However, the nice thing about MIDI is that it allows me to hook up my 2020/2021 synthesizer (a Behringer 2600) to a 1987 sequencer (a Yamaha QX5), a 2015 synth (a Roland JD-Xi), or pretty much any piece of pro synth gear made since 1983.

Now, with MIDI-over-USB or what not, we lose something which makes MIDI very nice: We can connect a hardware keyboard to a dedicates sound module without having to have a computer involved. While there are USB host synths which one can connect a MIDI-only-over-USB keyboard to directly, they are few and far between (my JD-Xi has USB, as does my 2600 and Arturia Keylab controller, but all three can only be hooked up to a computer with USB)

Until MIDI 2.0 has a way to allow synths to be connected to each other without involving computers, and there is a standard way to do that (I think USB-C would probably be best for this), DIN MIDI 1.0 will be a part of pro and bedroom recording studios.

> without having to have a computer involved

I shudder to think of a future where musical instruments require you to download an app to use them; where not only are your stove and washing machine phoning home, but your piano as well. No thanks.

You can sign up for the Pro edition piano for $9.99/mo, but you're going to have to call the sales team if you're in a touring band and need the Pro Enterprise edition.

Meanwhile the fly by wire key keys which are prone to wear out and need an expensive service call (not included in price) introduce a random jitter in timing in the standard edition. Attempts to correct this jitter by either performing surgery on your own device or correcting same in software are a violation punishable by jail time specified in DMCA v2.

Attempting to even do the repair yourself will be a violation of the terms and conditions of your subscription and void your ability for you or anyone else to register and ergo use your Piano. If you know or suspect someone of violating these terms please turn them in for a free $100 gift card good for a fine assortment of musical instruments.

If we suspect you have violated these terms you have agreed to give us an opportunity to inspect and if needed disable your equipment. For an additional $200 we will haul off your now useless instrument.

How much extra for the black keys?

Starting from 5 cents per stroke, depending on velocity and pitch. Just make sure you have internet connectivity at all times, otherwise your contract with each of the keys cannot be checked.

To be fair, the computer in a USB MIDI setup where it's just connecting a physical controller to a physical synth is basically just forwarding MIDI messages verbatim from one port to another. You can buy MIDI host devices that really don't do anything at all except allow you to connect two USB devices and have MIDI work. (They tend to be expensive, and they're kind of annoying to have to deal with.)

This isn't a proprietary lock-in thing, it's just an unfortunate limitation of USB. Though I suppose a hardware manufacturer could release a product that only works with some special app if they wanted to go that route. (Some devices have settings that can only be accessed via a computer app.)

Maybe. But it worries me whenever anything moves from an "embedded chip" mindset to a "let's add a touchscreen"[0] mindset. Some mid-level exec is going to look at that cheap but beefy ARM SoC they are using, and get ideas. The companies making digital pianos are not immune to the disease that causes online advertising to show up in refrigerator firmware.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2PMzSo1Bss

Who says it involves "phoning home"? You can use offline apps, and turn off your internet if you want. I happen to like browser based MIDI apps, but then again, I write them, so if it is "phoning home" (which it usually isn't unless I want it to) it is often to localhost. :)

Your comment could be applied to typewriters. Do you prefer the days when, if you wanted to write a book or article or something, you used a typewriter that was completely standalone? I kinda like having my "typewriter-style keyboard" connected to a computer... it opens up a ridiculous number of possibilities that you can't do with a standalone machine without a big display and a fast processor and a big hard drive. And maybe internet.... you can't exactly have Hacker News with a standalone typewriter, but you can with a keyboard that connects to a computer.

Same with a "piano-style keyboard."

I'm more referring to the trend in "smart" consumer electronics to violate privacy. For instance: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21657930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20206536 https://www.nbcnews.com/better/lifestyle/downside-connected-...

And it's not practical for your average consumer (or musician) to try to block it, or even detect it. Also, there are less and less options to buy "dumb" devices and appliances that won't spend their operating lives trying to exfiltrate data about you back to their manufacturers and their corporate partners.

"Who says it involves "phoning home"? You can use offline apps, and turn off your internet if you want."

Those are getting fewer and farther between, the new trend is that you have to accept a 40-page license agreement to rent a bike, you get a Fancy pet feeder that doesn't feed your cat when their servers are offline, your Samsung TV adds ads that you cannot turn off, etc.

You own and control nothing despite paying thousands of dollars for it.

I’m sure that there still are some offerings that don’t do that. Vote with your wallet.

I am not aware of any smart TVs you can actually control, and that are not user hostile.

I think "Vote with your wallet" is just an excuse to sit around and do nothing. It did not stop companies spying on you, selling your data, electronics becoming unrepairable, schematics disappearing, etc. Vote with your actual vote, we are meant to be a democracy first, capitalism second.

You can buy a dumb TV instead, or watch something else (Web, DVDs etc.). You can read books, play a musical instrument, or go out. There are lots of forms of entertainment today, many of them don’t track or spy on you.

I will shill for the retrokits rk006 all day long (I am not involved and do not benefit from the project).

https://retrokits.com/shop/rk006/

It's a midi usb host and multi-port thru-box that even boosts succulent growth while you make DAW-less jam.

It's particularly good for bridging USB and DIN midi.

This is why complaining about MIDI over USB is nonsense. Anyone with more than 3/4 MIDI 1.0 items has always needed at least a simple hub - and possibly a full patch bay, perhaps with processing of key splits, patch mappings, velocity ranges, and so on - all those things you'd use a computer for today.

The MIDI 1.0 benefit of connecting keyboard-to-keyboard really didn't last long in practice. Of course you can always do it in theory, but most practical applications at all levels need those extra features.

> even boosts succulent growth

Go on...

Agreed- though for MIDI 1.0 Kenton has some helpful boxes that act as a USB MIDI host to DIN MIDI converter.

the converters are great& easy.

this protest that we must conserve an over 30 year old standard& never ever update it is a breed of conservativism that makes me shudder. basic USB is available on a vast vast range of micros, including a huge range of under $1 ones. if you do want to use old gear, great, the are options.

We need more in the way of peer-to-peer and/or switchable USB (though I'm not quite sure how charging/power switching should work.) I remember reading about how to get USB to work peer-to-peer (e.g. like a simple bidirectional serial or ethernet cable) but practically it seems very hard.

Perhaps USB-C can do it as you suggest?

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