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Comment by luma | Hacker News Reader

As a city slicker who understands nothing of modern agriculture, can I get an explanation of what is going on here?

Fields are planted with things grazing animals like to eat then mowed, the plants are dried and baled and can be stored for a long time to feed animals when needed.

It’s not really a commodity product like grains so the producer and consumer are much more likely to deal directly with one another.

These are classified ads for cow food.

I love this about HN. I come from where everyone understands hay, and it's good for me to see that a) someone would not understand what a hay exchange is, and b) that someone will explain it simply and clearly to them. Everything about this is a good interaction.

Is this because middlemen take too big of a cut?

I work for an agricultural company that does a decent amount of hay sales as a middle man but I'm not too familiar with that part of the business.

I think it’s also that middlemen can’t do much to add any value. Transport is quite expensive due to low density so you usually purchase local and the finished product is ready literally in the field, there is no amount of packaging or processing to be done, just moving.

Why isn't it a commodity?

> Why isn't it a commodity

From a friend - in recent years draught conditions in California have reduced hay production

Price per volume is considerably lower than grain, material handling is much more complex (grain is essentially a fluid), it doesn't store as well as grain, it has far fewer uses and users, it isn't very standardized: bale size and type, what plants go into the bales, quality changes over time, seasonality, weather sensitivity... etc.

> These are classified ads for cow food.

I was talking to a friend about this recently… he was stressing out about rain on his hay piles. He said cows will eat just about anything - even hay that’s been rained on. But other animals, such as horses, are more picky and need specialized feed.

Just FYI as I found that interesting

Horses have a fairly delicate stomachs, you only really want to feed them the first and second cuttings of hay because later cuttings are too rich with alfalfa and lack the fiber from weeds and grasses and give them the shits. Cows however can eat basically any green plant matter and the later hay cuttings are packed with nutrients.

IANAFarmer: Grazing animals like horses and cows need to eat something over the winter. You can plant fields of grass and harvest them into hay bales for storage. If you aren't devoting any/enough of your land as hay fields, then you need to buy hay from someone else.

I read/watched some long time ago that for the majority of farmers wanting to provide hay for their animals, it makes no economic sens to grow their own.

This means that most of the hay being consumed is purchased somewhere else.

Confused by this comment - any more detail?

My father had a small farm(20ish acres) with cattle, as did a lot of people in the area at the time. There wasn't really a cost for hay outside of time and equipment up front(which isn't a lot), they just let the grass grow, cut it, let it sit, hit it with tines, bale it, etc.

Are you saying it's not efficient, and a full efficiency farm would use said grassland for crops instead? I can see that, but then where do the cattle roam?

Maybe it’s more efficient if you use all the grass for grazing in summer then buy hay in winter, vs letting some grass grow to use for hay later?

This is not the original source (was it a planet money episode? I really can't remember), but here's what I found:

> You also may want to compare the costs of purchasing hay with producing your own hay. In some markets, it may be cheaper to buy someone else’s hay and use your own forage for additional grazing. Finally, knowing your harvesting costs is critical for a custom operator who wants to be profitable over the long haul.

Source: https://www.progressivecattle.com/topics/facilities-equipmen...

Thanks(to both of you, but only replying once).

I completely forgot we had to cordon off areas for a time to let grow, and rotate.

It totally makes sense to me now - this is essentially about being able to raise more head per acre, since you'd have more grazing area at any time.

There’s a small (5 acres maybe) field by me where the farmer keeps horses. He moves the horses from one half of the field to the other and grows hay in the opposite side. I see him cut it down and bale it about twice a year. Looks like it’s pretty self sustaining. I’ve never stopped to talk to the owner about it.

Similarly naive follow-up: how much hay is needed per animal per month, assuming no other sources of food? (or does one always provide hay plus something else?)

Of course it varies by quite a lot. But 2% of body weight per day is in the area.

And what you feed is based on nutrition, cost, availability, and the specifics of your operation. It can be all one thing for a while, but there’s usually more of a strategy to it.

The answer to this also depends a lot on the ambient outdoors temperature. Horses can stay warm through the winter outside in almost any weather (down to single digits F easily). But in order to do so, they use their GI system like a furnace. So they basically are CONSTANTLY eating and pooping. So the colder it gets the more they eat.

People buy hay for their cattle to eat. See dropdown menu for products, this is one large dealer:

https://www.anderson-hay.com/

If you visit the area where that company is located you can see many full length flatbed semi truck trailers entirely covered in hay bales.

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