Honey bees increase social distancing when facing ectoparasite | Hacker News Reader

Honey bees increase social distancing when facing ectoparasite

science.org

151 pointspseudolus42 comments

The term "social distancing" was not a thing until the CoVid-19 pandemic, in my experience. It could be a sign of the times so the term is used because it is now popularly understood.

The Intro notes that "This hypothesis has been recently confirmed in the ant Lasius niger infected with the fungal pathogen Metarhizium brunneum, which induced behavioral changes ..." So it looks like this behaviour might be selected for.

Varroa is really nasty. Sometimes the mite causes colony collapse via death by a thousand cuts, sometimes it's like a nuclear bomb went off and sometimes the bees don't even notice (rare).

I've skimmed the paper but it looks good so far. University of Sassari off of Sardinia produces some very pretty and well researched stuff it seems.

It has been part of the literature since the early 1980s: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=social+distanc...

It just wasn't a widely-known term because we didn't have much need for it.

Cheers mate. Do you have an actual cite rather than a Google assertion?

To pick from one of the random sources that went into creating that graph:

> at least once, his symptoms were interpreted as a social distancing mechanism. [0]

The term has been in use for a _very_ long time. You'll also find it in editions of the Oxford dictionary from the 80s.

[0] Diseases of the Nervous System. Volume 36, Issues 1-6. (1975). Page 73.

Well, we did have a need for it but we just chose to ignore that need. Something like 30,000 people died every year from the regular flu in the USA alone, before pandemic. Social distancing (and masks) would bring that number to close to 0.

So if we're going by metrics of, we'd like to save 30,000 people every year, we absolutely had a need for social distancing all this time. But I get it, our society has a large tolerance for mass death, so in that view, we "didn't have much need for it". But taking that view we still don't have any need for it.

Obviously from my perspective we've had a need for it this whole time but just blissfully ignored that fact.

You're forgetting about the need for closeness and connection. Suicide rates among youth are at an all-time high. Crime and murder rates have gone up tremendously since the beginning of the pandemic. Saving 30,000 from the flu sounds great, but there are serious impacts from the extreme mask mandates and social distancing and the ones I mentioned are just what are immediately obvious. I imagine when you see the educational impact that many low income students actually end up suffering the most during the pandemic. Many teachers simply don't care if students aren't in school anymore. After all, if a student has the sniffles they'll get quarantined from school for 10+ days with no supplemental education.

I find what you're proposing might actually say more about your mental state than that of the people you think are endangering others by existing and wanting human connection.

Social distancing doesn’t always and automatically mean widespread prolonged lockdown. We are dealing with a novel coronavirus right now which how it spread and testing wasn’t immediately at hand. For something like the flu that we’re quite good at testing for social distancing could be as simple as stop incentivizing employees to come to work sick, and stop incentivizing parents to send their kids to school or daycare sick.

> Suicide rates among youth are at an all-time high

Suicide rates were rising pre-pandemic as well (IMO, due to social media and the Internet). Suicides overall declined in 2020 in the USA, for instance, so social distancing didn't have the feared effects. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/15/health/coronavirus-suicid...

However I agree broadly that the downsides of social distancing are real and unsustainable for more than a short time like a year at most. If we faced a 5 year vaccine development timeline for instance I don't think it would be acceptable to keep people from socializing that long.

> Suicide rates among youth are at an all-time high.

No they aren't. Where are you getting your stats from?

I should have been more specific. I was referring to youth suicides:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/youth-suicide-attempts-...

Data is from the CDC. I also ask you to look into suicide rates in other countries, not just the US.

One thing i admired when traveling to south east asia in the years before covid - people wearing masks to protect others in case they got any kind of respiratory sickness, or protecting themselves. In comparison, even in progressive countries like Switzerland, during initial phase of Covid people wearing masks to work and outside were sometimes badly ridiculed by natives young and old, and in some cases even fired from work for 'spreading panic' (I know a guy on immunosupressants who had no other choice).

In comparison with usual western coughing and sneezing on all public transport it seemed extremely considerate and I've expressed numerous times the wish west would adopt this at least a bit.

But maybe my optics is flawed and this was an after-effect of SARS which missed west completely and before that, it was same situation there.

> Something like 30,000 people died every year from the regular flu in the USA alone, before pandemic. Social distancing (and masks) would bring that number to close to 0.

How many of that number are people dying with flu, as opposed to from flu?

It wasn't long ago that pneumonia was called "old man's friend".

Measures to coddle our immune system can also be counter productive. The flu season in the UK is feared to be bad this year, as people have spent so long without mixing.

> Something like 30,000 people died every year from the regular flu in the USA alone, before pandemic. Social distancing (and masks) would bring that number to close to 0.

Flu and pneumonia vaccines were also available and uptake was nowhere near 100% (my doctor's office is always plastered with posters about "Get your flu shot" etc, but most people don't go out of their way to get it).

For instance a friend once told me that they always get the flu when getting the flu vaccine (??! obviously nonsense, but they sincerely believed it) so would not get it anymore.

Social distancing when a vaccine is available just doesn't make sense. We have to take the downsides of social distancing into account as well.

So all we need to do is just stop being human and then we can save all these lives!

We watched the old movie "Outbreak" at the start of Covid, and was surprised that the term "social distancing" is used in that movie to describe mitigations we should use during the pandemic. That movie is from 1995.

Fun movie to watch at the start of the pandemic. "Contagion" is almost crazy prescient too

I found Outbreak a pretty poor movie and hard to sit through after watching Contagion first.

At the same time there was an large ebola outbreak in africa. Imagine the conspiracy theories nowadays about this coincidence.

If find the term social distancing misleading, it's not about social but physical distance.

Social distancing is about both increasing physical distance between individuals when they interact, and also about reducing the number of social interactions. You and I may never interact and the physical distance between us might be so great it's irrelevant, but if we have a friend in common that visits both our houses frequently that creates a bridge between us the virus can cross.

This is why limiting the frequency of social interactions, such as by working from home instead of traveling to the office, it also part of social distancing. These honey bees exhibited this form of behaviour modification through reduced numbers of interactions between individuals in the foraging and nursing groups.

Simply keeping physical distance has the same effect without the wrong connotations. Many in Germany understood social distancing as a kind of social isolation. Also this social distancing has the opposite effect for me, since home office I have more social interaction as before, so social distancing increased the physical distance and decreased the social distance for me.

> The term "social distancing" was not a thing until the CoVid-19 pandemic

It seems to have nonzero incidence every year 1934-, and really start an upswing in the 1960s.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=social+distanc...

Ants dispose of ants that are cordyceps infected for their “social distancing”. The worst part is the political stances people make based on the logic of social insects.

Social distancing is such a fuzzy term, it is as clear as the word “thing”.

What we are seeing in human society is a psychological attack. Murder and suicide rates are skyrocketing. Funny how the media says we don't know why. Maybe it has to do with the lack of social supports. When inflation and housing prices are at an all time high, we are still quarantining kids for 10+ days from school and expecting parents to have unlimited paid family leave.

Kids are expected to sit inside the whole time and obesity is also at an all time high. Make sure we reward people for getting vaccines with donuts and free alcohol. Might as well give them a pack of cigarettes as well since we care so much about health as a society.

"Murder rates are skyrocketing" Do you have any source to support that?

I was temp blocked from responding when I had a link to share. Just lookup murder rate 2020. It increased 20%. You'll find lots of sources, including NPR and FBI info too.

Murder and suicide aren’t „skyrocketing“. In as far as crime rates have risen, there is no clear pattern pointing at any cause. Many other countries have had similar experiences with the pandemic, yet seen no changes in rates of violent crime. You fault „the media“ for not giving an easy explanation, then gesture at half a dozen unspecific grievances.

Hm.. a 20% increase in 2020, during a unprecedented lockdown but no clear pattern. Riiiight.

so the honeycomb was mostly empty ? if there are 6 empty cells around each full cell, that would be the minimum extra distancing they could do

And also have they taken out the effect of parasite in their population (quantity), which implying "social distancing"?

Wait… Do you believe bees act as in some 90s strategy game, with exactly one bee in any hexagon?

The Moment you realise bees are smarter than republicans

Interestingly, my dogs social distance when one of them gets sprayed by a skunk.

Stop spraying them with skunks and use a hose instead.

at first I was like, duh... But then it dawned on me. Duh me!!

I'll look stupid, I don't get it. Care to explain?

Animals have natural tendencies to stay away from smelly/sickly things. Thought the OP was getting woodshed, but his comment aligns w the article.

Yeah I also avoid anything that smells foul. Not very interesting.

smarter than humans:)

Wondering if the social distancing reduced the spread of virus in the bee colonies, why so many collapsed because of the virus?

1: varroa is a parasitic mite, not a virus

2: honeybees live in a hive - no amount of "social distancing" can fix the hive being infested with mites

3: CCD is multifactorial, and things like lower genetic diversity, neonicotinoid pesticides, and long-range transportation/mixing of bee hives and regional populations also play a role.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com