Toyota unveils its first all-electric car: the bZ4X
electrek.co
electrek.co
Seems like they might have been in petroleum's back pocket this whole time.
"Old school" manufacturers like BMW and VW may look like they are doing better because of the dozens of models they've released but the actual sales numbers are so tiny that their impact is basically 0.
The Prius on the other hand was a massive sales success, and it really was what made hybrids a thing.
Please find year to date (2021) EV sales by car group here: https://eu-evs.com/bestSellers/ALL/Groups/Year/2021
Volkswagen is outselling Tesla.
Adding the Volkswagen entries in the Model column gets to about 102k.
Is the left column all cars? Or includes hybrids?
Adding the Models, VW is slightly ahead at about 102k vs about 95k for Tesla.
I think it's just a case executive incompetence/severe tunnel vision: Toyota has been in hydrogen lala-land for a good long while now. Now they have some serious catching up to do.
Coincidentally, public opinion in both countries are staunchly against nuclear power, which I suspect played a role. When you eliminate a proven, stable source of power, you end up campaigning for everybody to use less electricity "to save the Earth." Once you buy that argument, EVs start to look less palatable. (Better to peddle hydrogen and don't look too close at how it's made.)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_...
> Toyota worked together with Tesla Motors to develop the second generation RAV4 EV, and the electric SUV was released in the United States in September 2012.
Japanese government as part of climate change efforts bet on hydrogen. The theory being that it's clean burning and such. However, the realization that hydrogen was already a mature industry and it's entirely derived from fossil fuels... that was a very dumb move on their part.
>It's surprising to see that even GM, BMW and Mercedes have "regular" electric cars in the market while Toyota has nothing more than a Tron-car sub-brand concept.
Everyone except Japan. Hyundai ioniq 5 is a crossover that can drag race against mclarens. Teslas are beasts. New Hummer is epic. The new Mustang mache is better than the regular mustang. VW id4 is perfect for what it is supposed to be. GTX performance is coming?
Worse yet, this toyota is kind of trash. Who made the decision that the base model has 150kw motor in 1 and then 2x 80kw in AWD. As opposed to the correct decision of 2x 150kw. The base model of 150kw, ok i get it. The top end being 160kw? Nope. wrong decision.
It looks like it has roughly "table stakes" as far as capabilities go, at best, beating neither the Model Y or Mach-E on range, but likely costing less to compensate.
In my humble opinion, the name is horrendous. May they have the wisdom to change it when they start selling it in the U.S.
[1] https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on-the-road-...
And they did have a 79% market share of all EVs sold in the US last year (though, that is expected to be lower this year, and the EV market segment is growing very fast). Cf. https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2021/08/as-ev-sales-double-....
In Canada, Tesla is deploying supercharger stations with separate, dedicated chargers for all other brands to take advantage of government subsidies.
I wouldn't put it past them to prioritize their own cars in some way when they finally open up to other makes.
I had always assumed these were like gas stations where you can bring any car to fill up.
If each manufacturer is going to have their own network, this doesn't seem like a good path forward.
Though this is reportedly going to change, with Tesla switching to CCS and opening up their charging stations to it.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...
https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/ev-reliability-varied-as-...
I'm planning to upgrade to full electric sometime in the next three years, whenever something compelling comes up. If I had to switch today, it'd be a Leaf (doesnt suit my distance needs), a Model Y (doesnt suit my budget), or a Bolt EV (doesnt suit my no-active-recalls-due-to-fundamental-fire-risk requirement). Hyundai and Kia are out due to bad past experience with them (engine totally died just outside warranty, known issue, no option other than a $9000 engine replacement with no guarantees the same thing wouldn't happen 31 days thereafter). If Toyota or Honda had a compelling option I would buy in in a heartbeat
I’ve always assumed most cars have mechanical steering with power assistance, so they’ll work in the event of a power failure. But a Lock to lock of 150 degrees sounds like it would be impossible to move even if there is a mechanical connection from steering to wheels.
Reliability is going to come down to implementation. In some cases you actually have advantages in control-by-wire (less mechanical parts to fail). You can also implement mechanical overrides for emergency situations.
Tron-car / iMobile / eMachine styling ? Check.
Dumping ground for UI/UX experiments ? Check.
...
God forbid they would just give us an electric Camry. Or a forerunner. Or a Tacoma.
Do they not understand ?
We don't want your "electric car" - we want your car, electric.
The EVs that ended up selling well ultimately were Tesla vehicles, which were closer to this thing than an electric Camry.
It just means that not everyone has the same taste, and some peoples' tastes are in a minority, even if they don't know it.
This is, in fact, the case.
If Audi launches electric A4/A6/A8 tomorrow, that will be (roughly) 100% of their sales and they know it.
But they have billions sunk into ... (see my comment downthread about manufacturing and tooling).
So consumers need to wait for their lifetime ROI to satisfy the incumbent manufacturers such that they are willing to jettison those investments and electrify their actual lineup.
The worst offender, by far, is Volvo whose marketing pedigree, target audience and models produces are a perfect match for 21st century electric car buyers ... and yet we're two full model cycles past the Tesla Model S and I still can't get an electric V90 wagon ...
The Honda Fit EV had an 82 mile range, and could only be leased. (And Honda Fits were neat, but never sold that well, and even the gas version was pulled from the United States market.)
The Golf, on the other hand, is very popular, but the Golf EV had a 125-mile range, and was only sold in very limited markets/quantities.
What EV version of a popular vehicle had competitive range, produced in sufficient quality, and priced competitively? I can't think of any.
But yes, these are exceptions.
You'd think "Not everyone needs a car that can do long trips, so an EV that trades range for affordability is just satisfying a market segment!", and you'd be right...if consumers were rational.
Range anxiety is one of the top hurdles for EV adoption. Manufacturers that produce cars with only ~100 mile range, that only support charging at <20 kW only perpetuate the mentality that EVs don't have the range to be viable for anything other than commuting.
People who aren't EV enthusiasts and don't follow car or tech news specifically are likely to miss the memo that not only do long-range EVs exist, but they can be charged FAST. Obviously, they still don't charge as fast as a gas tank can be filled, but fast enough that day trips are quite viable, and road trips only require a little extra planning.
But that's all under the skin. The styling and interiors can look as mundane or wild as the maker chooses.
Perhaps. But the Leaf alone is a significant counterpoint to that. Contrast with the abject market failure of the electric-from-the-ground-up i3.
EDIT It just occurred to me that this has already happened once: comparing the cars of the 50s/60s to the 80s, it is clear that there is a lot more going on than one would think. Is it inflation? Regulation? Corporate politics? Zeitgeist?
We already know the answer - they have billions invested in supply chains, manufacturing and tooling that are all sunk costs with diminishing ROI if they actually make their cars electric.
We are witnessing a (frustrating) balancing act wherein the incumbent manufacturers attempt to squeeze as much return as possible from these old-line investments while simultaneously attempting to remain relevant and hedge their future bets.
But thats just a theory, and there are other plausible ones.
(But I agree with the rest - it's hideous, poorly named, thoroughly uninspiring, and overdue.)
The Pontiac Aztek and Toyota C-HR are hideous and polarizing. The only people that want them want to demonstrate that they don't care what their car looks like. That takes more commitment than taking on a bland, uninspiring vehicle like a Camry.
In my opinion, the bZ4X is also kind of "alternate powertrain" hideous. In a way, that worked for the Prius. You could clearly tell that the driver was an eco-warrior driving something "different." I think Toyota might actually be trying to hint at Lexus with this styling, which has a similar edginess to it.
The BMW 3-series is a model, not a sub-brand, even if variations all get a "3xx" name.
An electric version would not have any of that.
A rock solid EV that doesn't need a lot of repairs, and when it does, is simple/cheap to repair would be a huge win for EV buyers.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't an EV thing, it's a Tesla thing.
I am not into cars, but I can only assume the Lead/Volt/whatever else out there is bad quality or has some other drawback that causes them to basically be non existent on the roads.
A few. Chevrolet will sell ~30,000 EV units this year in the US.
And this is getting some attention:
https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/bolt-euv
Chevy needs to get that price down to $25k-$26k (their Trax ICE vehicle that the Bolt EUV looks like is $21k base).
The Ford Mustang EV will sell 20k units this year, or just over that.
The Volkswagen ID.4 will sell maybe 13k-14k units this year.
Nissan Leaf 10k units; Audi EVs 8k-9k units; Hyundai EVs 8k-9k units; Porsche Taycan 8k-9k units (the Taycan is now outselling the 911 in the US market).
So unless you've actually been looking, it's likely the body styles just haven't stood out enough for you to notice.
About 79% of EVs in the US are Tesla. They exist, but Tesla certainly absolutely dominates the market.
The major drawback to other brands has many facets:
- Reputation for low range. The first Nissan Leaf made in 2011 had an EPA range of only 73 miles. In 2016, they started giving a bigger battery, but it still only had a paltry 107 mile range. It wasn't until 2019 that they started offering a battery with a 226 mile range, but by then, the reputation as a short-range EV was essentially set in stone.
- Slow charging speed. Teslas can charge at up to a whopping 250 kW, which can grant 75 miles of range in only 5 minutes. Meanwhile, the Leaf only supported up to 50 kW until 2019, and even now only does 100 kW.
- Lack of charging infrastructure. This is related to the previous note. If you go to a site like PlugShare.com, you can see TONS of chargers in any metro area, but the problem is, the extreme majority of them are J-1772 plugs that charge at <10 kW. At that speed, it takes an hour to get just 30 miles of range.
All that is compounded by the fact that car dealerships are often disincentivized to sell EVs. Dealerships make a significant portion of their money in the repair and maintenance bays. Since EVs require far less maintenance, and so far are proving far more reliable, dealerships don't want to sell them.
They were a battery innovator and supplier for formula-e and now started they own car production.
I also hear good things about the Hyundai Kona, which is quite similar in terms of build and features. (They share a bunch of tech, I believe.)
Volkswagen's newest model, ID.4, is now being sold in the US. It's great.
The Chevy Bolt is not the latest tech, but I hear a lot of people are happy with it.
In Europe, of course, the variety is much greater: In addition to the above, you also have the Peugot e-208, Nissan Leaf, Opel Corsa-e, Škoda Enyaq, Ford e-Mach, Audi e-tron, Jaguar I-PACE, Polestar, etc.
What I did say:
> It's a key market advantage they are about to lose.
Toyota has a key market advantage among ICE power trains. They do not have a key market advantage with electric power trains. (Though they should, given their decades of Prius production.)
I just would not expect them to waste the 4Runner/Tacoma branding on an experimental product due to the ICE 4Runner/Tacoma’s spectacular reputation as one of the most reliable cars available.
> Launched under a sub-brand ? Check.
It's still a Toyota. What sub-brand are you referring to?
> Tron-car / iMobile / eMachine styling ? Check.
No more or less than every single crossover wanna-be SUV for the last 15 years. Cars have pretty much visually converged to looking the same, due to aerodynamic requirements.
> Dumping ground for UI/UX experiments ? Check.
The wing-shaped steering wheel is optional. What else is being dumped here as an experiment?
> We don't want your "electric car" - we want your car, electric.
If you have a driving pattern with short trips, you can already drive any single Toyota PHEV as an electric car.
Also, pure EV Camries and RAV4s are sure to follow this in the next couple of years.
NX Exterior: https://inchcapecdn.azureedge.net/cdn-images/stock/f/fn19yuj...
UX Exterior rear: https://cdn.carbuzz.com/gallery-images/840x560/498000/900/49...
RX Interior: https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2021-Le...
Prius begat hybrid Corolla.
This is all very much how Toyota rolls these things out.
Their quote:
> generates electricity equivalent to 1,800 km of driving distance per year
Is too vague. Is this taking away the distance lost from added panel weight? What are the assumptions (e.g. how many hours of light/day)? Is this electricity-distance at exit of the panel or after storage<->release from the batteries? What is the panel efficiency curve over the vehicles' life (e.g. do you have to replace/refurb the panel)?
Obviously we would all love for this to work, we get cooler cars in the summer and bonus driving range. But it isn't exactly the first time vehicle makers have tried it and have been panned (or it has been outright vaporware) previously.
EVs work. We know they work. They can work from renewables, including solar. The questions here are around onboard solar specifically and if they actually make sense (and frankly if this is a marketing gimmick).
But maybe I could see the solar panel as a useful tool for camping excursions? The solar-panel use case appears (to me at least) to be when I want to drive somewhere far away, off grid, and where the car is going to be idle for a few days. Camping is the only use-case that I can think of that fits that bill. Although I'm sure other people might have some ideas.
I just leased my first EV and it ended up being a Volkswagen, a brand I had no prior relationship with, simply because Toyota didn't have anything to offer outside of PHEVs.
When I google for superchargers for other brands, I get very ambiguous results. There has been chatter about Tesla opening up its supercharges in the future (the selfish part of me would rather not see that happen, its I-80 charging lots before climbing to Tahoe are already pretty busy), but I've never seen another brand, so I guess it's not a thing yet.
So what's the situation then? If you're a non-Tesla EV owner in the Bay Area, how do you make it to Lake Tahoe in a reasonable amount of time?
For an SUV, looks pretty good. The dark grey around the wheels works well with kind of blocky squatness it has. A more serious grown up Scion xB feel. Definitely has a bit of a Jaguar iPace feel, but less swooshy & with a little more squat, atop the road solidity of a feel. Not a big fan of the Jag's haunches & this has similar-ish geometry but the style feels better, more direct to me.
I was seriously considering cancelling and ordering the BZ4X but I am very disappointed with the specs on this car.
I bet it'll be AU$70-80k as well (top of the range rav 4 hyb is only 53k).
I like Toyota and it would take a lot for me to switch brands but I think they really dropped the ball on this one.
is its sibling, evidently
If I had to guess, this is made in partnership with Toyota, like a handful of other products (the Subaru BR-Z, Scion FR-S, and current Toyota 86 are an example.)
EDIT: Ah you edited to include that it's a sibling vehicle. Thank you!
The RAV4 EV was only ever a compliance vehicle, with very little practical use.
This is gibberish.
So... NOT its first all-electric car by any means.