Cutting-edge (heh) technology 70,000 years ago was the stone blade as well as the earliest known primitive art.
An interesting guide whenever you're trying to put this kind of thing into context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_prehistory
Occasionally, they will misunderstand this as Y happening and they’ll explain that.
In the best universe, they will misunderstand X having happened as Y having happened and explain it even though Y did not happen.
The existence of this last characteristic makes me trust post hoc explanations very little. Explanations should make falsifiable predictions. It is easy to fit the facts with a false thesis.
He strives to lower the temperature of discussions that get too heated. He tries (and mostly succeeds) to get folks to stay on topic and civil. He keeps the site free from trash or astro-turfing. And he does all this alone.
> complete incompetence/corruption within HN
This is a strong claim. If you have evidence of it, show us. Or retract it.
It's the offensive part that's not encouraged here - and I dig that.
I think it's important to remember that technology is highly, highly iterative. It's not like if Elon Musk were born 70k years ago we'd have cavemen with electric cars.
In fact, if all of us were somehow warped back in time that far, I fear we'd be even worse off. We know how to roll fiber optic networks and write ML algorithms, but we'd starve before figuring out how to chase down an animal, or know which berries to eat.
- art and culture from the far future (flutes, 42 kya; figurative art, 40 kya)
- Simple ovens (29 kya) and pottery (20 kya)
- Rope and various ways to use rope (nets, clothes, bags) 26-28 kya
- Saws (20 kya)
- Dugout canoes (8 kya)
- Basic knowledge of health and disease (concept of potable/non-potable water, "fertility awareness" method for contraception, warm clothing, prevention of injuries, etc)
- Food preservation (salting and drying meat, fermented foods, perhaps sealing things with pitch?)
- Wheeled carts (3 kya)
- "Water bottles": animal skins sealed with pitch
Each of these can probably be made/demonstrated over a period of days or weeks and would likely impress the group. If I was really successful and managed to lead the group, I'd probably try to at least get us on our way to these things (would likely take generations):
- Attempt animal domestication (13 kya)
- Cultivation of barley and wheat (10 kya)
- Water wheel (2 kya)
- Migration to fertile region (Fertile Crescent perhaps?)
These things are easier if you have an idea ahead of time of what you're making, but that has to work in a cultural context and that still doesn't mean they're easy. For instance, how would you would you build a useful saw out of stone? Can you recognize the wild ancestors of wheat and convince someone to keep at the process of domestication for thousands of years?
It's likely that ancient humans were adept at many of these things, like salt preservation, warm clothing, contraception, spun fibers, and boats. Many of the others (agriculture, wheels, etc) simply wouldn't make sense outside their native cultural contexts.
In the meantime, you'd probably have to learn from them the basics of survival.
>It's likely that ancient humans were adept at many of these things, like salt preservation, warm clothing, contraception, spun fibers, and boats. Many of the others (agriculture, wheels, etc) simply wouldn't make sense outside their native cultural contexts.
For people this primitive, even elementary metalworking would be revolutionary. Yes you'd have to do a bit of tinkering to work out the kinks, but iron ore pre-modern-extraction was everywhere, and once you have the foreknowledge that heat special rock -> smash into shape -> better-than-rock tool it's not hard to figure your way to something groundbreaking.
I do think you'd be limited in how much you could change things by how far back you go, but mostly due to human life span. The more new technologies you need to personally 'invent' the longer this stuff takes, as you'd need to experiment with on-the-ground resources and techniques until you can successfully realize your conceptual understanding. I know what a blast furnace is, and because I have the key concepts I can eventually build one with some trial and error. But it would take years if I had to start from just sticks and sand.
You could tell them that disease is caused by tiny animals, and that the earth is a sphere that orbits the sun, but getting them to believe you is a another thing. And making use of it yet another. You won't introduce quarantine just because of germ theory: book of Leviticus already has a version of quarantine, "the law of the plague" well before germ theory.
I can find a cholera outbreak, and tell whoever will listen to stop drinking water from the local wells and eating from the local markets. Go to another part of the city for water and food. Those who listen, even if only one, will be my proof. I can also do a cool science experiment with seaweed agar, silver and bacterial growth but that's not as dramatic.
The earth being a sphere that orbits the sun can't be proved without a telescope, but I can propose a vastly simpler and just as accurate approach using kepler's laws. If I was paying attention in high school physics, I can even do cool stuff with Newton's laws of gravitation to show that "As above, so below" (the planets obey the same law of gravity that we earthlings do).
Yes people might still not believe you, as we can be a stubborn and prideful species, but you know the 'why' of many things and so can keep making correct predictions based on that.
> You won't introduce quarantine just because of germ theory: book of Leviticus already has a version of quarantine, "the law of the plague" well before germ theory.
The bible simply lists procedures, it doesn't explain why you do these things or allow you to extrapolate to other situations and scenarios. By contrast, simply by knowing the "why" of infectious diseases, a smart person or government could isolate the cause of - for example - the black death fairly rapidly (rats w/ fleas) and begin taking steps to solve the issue.
A modern person has a head full of correct answers for questions people 2,3,4000 years ago have yet to even ask. That's powerful stuff, and once they've proved their credentials in some way the books they write will advance humanity by millenia.
Results with diseases have a fair amount of chance, as we should all know by now. It might go as you say, it might not. Your disciple might leave and get cholera soon after due to exposure beforehand. A person who stayed and didn't get cholera might attribute their success to the manner in which they prayed. Or your guy's success to the manner in which they prayed.
It's hard to falsify the assertion that "they were not stricken because they were righteous / said the correct prayer", and "statistical significance" is not a dramatic or obvious thing to convey.
All I'm saying is that you're vastly underestimating the knowledge, skill, and cultural context that went into these technologies.
[1] http://www.warehamforge.ca/ironsmelting/
[2] https://sites.wustl.edu/meteoritesite/items/some-meteorite-r...
A lot of our ancestors where not in a particularly good physical condition because of how horrible their nutrition is.
Furthermore, modern humans have plenty of disease and issues caused by our modern environment that would render us far weaker 70 kya. Near/farsightedness, teeth issues, diabetes, obesity, repetitive stress injuries, etc. are entirely modern issues. Then look at the comforts we’ve gotten used to (shoes, clothing, soap, a too-clean environment for our immune system etc) - and I have no doubt that a modern human would be in far, far worse shape for the prehistoric life than your average person 70 kya.
You can have sucky nutrition for lack of vitamins etc and those will eventually leave you in bad physical condition. Even if you gain muscle mass temporary, damage to health will be real.
Hunter gathrer also don't have reason to bulk up unlike those prison guys.
Where would you get pitch? Isn't it only found in a very few locations?
I'd consider myself a pretty handy guy, but if I were whisked away to 70k years ago this very minute then I'd probably struggle with a lot of that, even though I roughly know how to do it. And that is ignore the obvious communication barriers, that you also need to spend time on basic survival, and things like that. A lot of these crafts developed over generations partly because while the concepts aren't all that complex, the actual doing of it in a way that's effective is a lot harder.
I certainly think it'll take a lot more than "days or weeks".
The problem was not to make things, ancients were able to produce few very advanced tools, mechanisms, and technologies, but to save them and pass knowledge of making them to future generations.
To make a dent, you will need a tool for mass spreading of knowledge en masse: a church, a library, a copier, or a book making machine.
...Google, "writing JavaScript"...
I said to myself: Ouch and damn! Fair point.
Edited a typo and for clarification, I love all languages and am dripping with sarcasm and snark for all of them equally.
The reptilian hindbrain that handles violence isn't needed nearly as much now that we have society and civilization. It's shrinking.