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Comment by brodouevencode | Hacker News Reader

The rhetoric is harsh, but I can sympathize with him. I would rather my children see how hard I work (it never went unnoticed), and now that they are older I happily include them in on what I do. But those early years should be dedicated to learning how to be social and nice - things women are better at than men on average. Traditionally men have been the workers, women have been the caregivers. This model has worked for centuries.

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We are talking about the first 6 months (I don't think your 6 month old will appreciate how much you were working that first 6 months).

I'm no history major but I am pretty sure woman have been as much the workers as men (think the gather component of hunter/gatherer).

I'm not a history major, but I'm pretty sure the entire concept of parental leave is completely alien to all of history. Historically, the majority of people were unemployed and worked for themselves on their own farm / craft. Having children just meant doing farm work / artisanship with your children around, not taking a break.

Historically, many children died in the first year. Historically, most family’s had the idea of “heir and a spare”. Historically, women were the only people to provide child care. Historically, women didn’t have a separate career, nor went to school.

Thankfully, we don’t need to be beholden to history.

> Thankfully, we don’t need to be beholden to history.

That was kind of the point of my comment. I think my snark went over your head.

This was not a comment on who is or could be better workers. I was simply pointing out what has traditionally worked, and that it's been pretty successful. Also I think your boxing this in to the context of the article by referring to the first six months (and that's fair to do) but I wasn't (I should have made myself more clear).

I'm impressed because nothing you say makes any sense. A 6-month-old child won't understand that you are working, but will feel the mother being exhausted. Early education is not just about being social and nice, and the exclusion of males from early education gets more criticism these days. What has been "traditional" is meaningless today: many women earn more, don't want to have kids etc. Also, saying "this model worked for centuries" is meaningless - you can say the same about slavery, all kinds of discrimination etc. Moreover, we are talking about the freedom to rather than being forced to take a paternity leave. Having more options is always positive.

I have twin two year olds. Early on, I had to do a significant amount of work because there is two of them. But even with that work helping my wife, I still did not need any parental leave. Newborns are easy for a father... Just change the diaper, feed a bottle, and comfort them. Now that my kids are two years old, I need to spend more time with them teaching them things and I am sure that will grow. Maybe mothers should get leave right after birth and father's should get it as the kids get older to teach them more things?

I think women should get more leave than what has been traditionally given. If a child is not properly socialized by the age of four, good luck after that. Women are just naturally better at doing that.

Now that my kids are older I spend a lot more time with them than when they were too young for school. All of them are very good gardeners - theyve been helping me in the garden since they were old enough to move around in there without hurting themselves. My oldest daughter can swing a hammer better than most men. I enjoy spending time with them and showing them how to do things.

> If a child is not properly socialized by the age of four, good luck after that. Women are just naturally better at doing that.

I respectfully disagree. Men are better at socializing children. Children without fathers have lower levels of empathy, more likely to engage in anti-social behavior, and more likely to be narcissists.

Mothers indulge children, and care for them, which is great, but leads to self-centeredness. Fathers set boundaries, enforce rules, and stop playing with children when they get mean. Many traditional cultures see the father's role as introducing children to the outside world and teaching them their place in it, and I believe this is backed by empirical data.

[1] https://www.fox26houston.com/houstons-morning-show/fathers-i...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2001/apr/05/crime.penal

Mothers are certainly better at providing for the immediate physical and emotional needs for children.

It's always dangerous to generalise too much from your own experience. I had 6 weeks off when my son was born and would have taken more if it was possible. He didn't sleep or feed very well so my wife certainly could have used the extra support.

Now that my kid is nearly four I would also love more time off. How about more family friendly, or just less time-demanding, jobs in general?

[going off topic a bit it seems to me like post-Covid lockdown more and more people are looking for this, and are leaving jobs that can't provide it]

> Maybe mothers should get leave right after birth and father's should get it as the kids get older to teach them more things?

Absolutely agree. My toddler is much more difficult than my newborn, and much more likely to behave with me than my wife.

I wish I spent more time with my dad growing up. He loved his work. I’m sure he believed in his mind he was working hard for his family. If I ever have children, I’ll make sure to be there for them.

Same here. However according to some voices here and in the media, we are "losers" for thinking that way.

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