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Comment by DantesKite | Hacker News Reader

If you continue having issues, consider taking NAC. It's very commonly used to treat bronchitis and my asthmatic mother has had tremendous success with it.

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NAC has many other health benefits. It helps your liver, for example. It is given for acetaminophen overdose, FWIW.

I would caution against anyone supplementing with NAC for general health reasons (e.g. other than a specific condition like bronchitis).

In mice, very high doses of NAC causes tumors to form. https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/n-acetyl-cysteine-...

More broadly, there is a lot of emerging evidence against directly taking antioxidant supplements. For example, it is well established that antioxidant supplementation counteracts the benefits of exercise in humans (free radicals are a cue the body uses to initiate recovery). https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/NFS-03-2.... You can find similar articles/studies for other antioxidants.

I am not sure how well known it is, but I already have known this. Immunostimulants are not necessary a healthy thing either, especially not for people with an autoimmune disorder. It can cause flare-ups for example. There is a case of a woman whose condition deteriorated rapidly after having consumed some common herbs and died within a day or two. I think she had MS.

Another example: it has been known that many substances do prevent, but if you already have cancer, than your condition will worsen.

Back to NAC: it is healthy for you in the typical doses which is about 200-1000 mg I would say. If you take acetaminophen on the daily, then it is especially recommended.

In any case, I do not recommend taking it long-term, or not without breaks in-between. Take it for 2 months, stop for a month, take it for another 2 months, then stop for a month and so forth. You can do 1 month on then off, and so on. Up to you.

“ There is a case of a woman whose condition deteriorated rapidly after having consumed some common herbs and died within a day or two. I think she had MS.”

I have M.S. What herbs did she take?

Sadly I cannot remember. The story stuck with me because of the quick deterioration. Unfortunately I cannot even remember enough to find it! :(

I have MS as well. Propolis seems to be fine as immunomodulation goes. I also take ALA. There are conflicting results with regarding to resveratrol. You could take a look at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6311642/ if you have not yet done so.

>There is a case of a woman whose condition deteriorated rapidly after having consumed some common herbs and died within a day or two. I think she had MS.

I'm so, so glad I can finally downvote friend-of-a-friend rumourmongering like this. Maybe this is something legitimate, but handwaving an entire anecdote on a forum like this, with no definite information except "a case" involving "a woman" and her "condition", is baffling.

Maybe don't listen to this user's suggestions about NAC without verifying something about it, which was too much trouble for them.

I am too lazy to look for it. It is on PubMed. In any case, there are many cases of n=1 on HN. Plus, it is not unheard of that immunostimulants may be quite harmful for people with an autoimmune disorder, say, MS. I merely mentioned this case because it is an odd one. She was fine. She took some herbs, and her condition worsened until she died like a day after. I will never forget it. Too bad I cannot seem to find it.

>In any case, there are many cases of n=1 on HN. Plus, it is not unheard of that immunostimulants may be quite harmful for people with an autoimmune disorder, say, MS.

That's not the point! Perhaps it is on PubMed, but with the FUD-like "information" you've provided it's just a scary rumour about "herbs", and entirely unhelpful. Is MS even the illness at issue? Should people with that illness avoid cilantro? Milk thistle? Oregano?

>I will never forget it.

You have not remembered it!

It was not intended to be FUD at all, chill. I take lots of herbal supplements and I have MS.

I think I found the article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3130893/ (Acute Demyelinating Disease after Oral Therapy with Herbal Extracts)

So to answer your question: The formulation of tablets (labelled as ‘immunostimulant’) consisted of Echinacea purpurea 45 mg, Uncaria tomentosa 37.5 mg, and Tabebuia avellanedae and Plantago maritima 30 mg.

I only remembered the Echinacea one. It actually has been an issue in many of these cases, so I avoid it. As I said, immunostimulants for people with autoimmune disorder are usually not good. Immunomodulators can be, but that depends as well. For example allicin and propolis reduce production of inflammatory cytokines such as IL-6 and TNF-α, which from what I recall is good for MS.

Plus:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamadermatology/fullarticle... (Activation of autoimmunity following use of immunostimulatory herbal supplements)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32553683/ (The effects of immunostimulatory herbal supplements on autoimmune skin diseases)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6144106/ (Drug-induced autoimmune hepatitis associated with turmeric dietary supplement use)

I'm not sure you can apply those findings regarding antioxidants. NAC isn't itself an antioxidant, but a prodrug for an amino acid that is the rate limiting factor in producing glutathione, the bodies primary endogenous antioxidant. Presumably if you're already "full" on glutathione, the NAC does nothing.

Cheers. I take a small selection of supplements - mostly minerals/vitamins and digestive support but also some amino acids. Not NAC these days, but I may again. My main antioxidant supplement at the moment is Alpha-lipoic Acid.

FDA banned OTC NAC sales after it found out it might help with COVID [1]. Can't have that. And yeah, I know you're suggesting it for something else, but it's hard to get now.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7649937/

Are you serious? The FDA banned NAC? This is absurd.

I think they re-classified it and it's no longer available over the counter. As far as I'm aware it was not banned entirely. I wouldn't know, I stocked up considerably right after the ban, before it disappeared from online stores (but after it already disappeared from Amazon). I figure they wouldn't ban it if it didn't work, like most supplements.

NAC is amazing! We have it available here OTC. I wanted to get in higher quantities from the US but I might not be able to do that, then.

Check this random factoid out: "After about two weeks of 2,400mg NAC supplementation, cigarette usage appears to be reduced voluntarily by around 25%."

I personally take it for my liver. It does wonders to it, similarly to silybilin.

How are you measuring the “wonders” that it does to your liver?

Primarily liver function tests.

Also note the absence of that sweet/sickly smell on one's breath. This implies a reduced level of circulating acetaldehyde, the primary carcinogen associated with alcohol consumption.

The FDA didn't ban it: it just cannot be marketed as a health supplement. Mostly because it was originally approved as a drug back in the 1960s. It would be like selling Tylenol as a vitamin. A dumb technicality that'll likely be reversed.

And you can still purchase it online:

https://www.bulksupplements.com/products/n-acetyl-l-cysteine...

https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item01534...

https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/cysteplus-reg

There are many brands listed on iHerb (all with "dietary supplement" prominently listed in the product description), though most of the items are marked "out of stock", so it looks like many people have been stocking up.

https://www.iherb.com/c/n-acetyl-cysteine-nac

Well, no. It appears that the FDA became aware of companies marketing N-acetyl-L-cysteine as a hangover remedy and started the process of taking action at that point. And once they start taking action, they can't ignore some off-label uses for something that's considered a drug. And while this action started in the middle of 2020, there's no evidence that this decision had anything to do with research around the drug and COVID.

An example letter sent by the FDA in July 2020: https://www.fda.gov/inspections-compliance-enforcement-and-c...

It does seem to work as a hangover preventative provided you take it before starting to drink alcohol. (Somewhere between 15 minutes to a few hours before.)

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