Riding the Writing Wave | Hacker News Reader

Riding the Writing Wave

perell.com

100 pointskkoncevicius54 comments

Many want to be seen as a writer, filmmaker or programmer or they want the rewards. If you don’t love it, don’t do it. Writers write because they’re compelled to do so. Shonda Rhimes says exactly this. She is compelled. Same with the other disciplines. PG? I’ll bet you don’t write until you can’t hold it any longer.

All this talk of establishing a writers routine or finding motivation is trying to persuade non writers to write. Tough to hear, I know. Yes indeed downvote me because I’m denying your dreams of wearing black rimmed Tom Ford glasses. But know it’s true because right now, you’re not writing.

I agree that writers need to be motivated by something other than their own ego. But I disagree that routines aren't tremendously helpful, even for those uniquely inspired to write. People suited to write face the same challenges with self-control and time-management as everyone else.

For example, consider this interview with David Foster Wallace:

DFW: If past experience holds true, I will probably write an hour a day and spend 8 hours a day biting my knuckle and worrying about not writing.

CR: Not worrying about what to write?

DFW: Worrying about not writing.

This. I'll also add: people suffering from various levels of executive dysfunction, e.g. from ADHD. In those cases, the routines externalize executive functions, helping people who'd really love to write, except their own brain isn't cooperating.

> the routines externalize executive functions, helping people who'd really love to write, except their own brain isn't cooperating.

I've observed that an externalized executive function is helpful for nearly everyone, not just those compensating for a dysfunction, BUT: routines, like extrinsic motivation, are vulnerable to situational disruption. Choose the external trigger for the routine with care, and be prepared to defend your routines from competing triggers (particularly social ones).

The phone rings, or you receive a text message, or there is a knock at the door. Either you block these disruptions, or you may need an external trigger to resume the routine (which is harder to establish because disruptions are typically infrequent and irregular). Repurposing an existing trigger (like a pomodoro timer, if you use one) can help.

> routines externalize executive functions

That's a very concise and descriptive way to describe routines, thanks.

I also expect, just from my own experience, that starting a writing routine can actually cause the obsessive motivation to write, rather than vice-versa.

I started writing a musical last year while stuck in my NYC apartment during the COVID peak. At first, it was just a way to cope with the boredom. After a few weeks of writing every day, it became more and more difficult to think about anything else. Eventually I stopped, not because writing was too hard, but because it too hard to get through my day job.

I'm not implying that I have the necessary talent to succeed as a writer, but I expect successful writers feel similarly about their writing process.

I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. - Douglas Adams

This feels like gatekeeping writing unnecessarily.

It's a fairly common sentiment among writers that writing is painful. "I don't enjoy writing, I enjoy having written", etc.

Although it seems contradictory, I expect many writers would say writing is often painful, but they still feel compelled to do it because keeping their ideas inside is more painful. Pain and motivation aren't mutually exclusive.

Birth is a painful process.

Just as there are many ways to be a programmer, there are many ways to be a writer. I'd estimate that for the vast majority of people in the US, writing of some kind would be a good thing. Everyone thinks. Writing is a different form of thinking.

I’m a happy commenter and code writer.

My big issue with writing prose was that the only good stuff I produced was confessional. I shared it with trusted friends who encouraged me, but I was terrified to make anything public.

I’m so glad I never published any of it. It could literally have cost me my career in tech.

I don’t have an edgy life anymore, but I don’t think I’d risk baring my soul to the world even now as a boring programmer dad.

But there's nothing wrong with writing and not sharing. If the act of writing is the fundamental point of writing (the journey is its own reward), it doesn't matter whether you share it or not. It doesn't need to be shared, it doesn't need to be good. It can be destroyed as soon as you finish it.

Writing can be a process of excavation if you choose to go that route in fiction or non-fiction, and it can be deeply personal and deeply risky and rewarding. But there are other paths. Try writing on a subject you’re passionate about and follow the journalist’s rule of never injecting yourself into the story. Having that red line may create a safe outlet you might enjoy.

There is always the route of "fiction inspired by real-life." Use your stories, but change them. Maybe add a more coherent narrative that doesn't exist in the vignettes of a lived-life.

You could always publish it as a penname, or just change small details so as not to be recognizable (i.e. wading into fiction territory).

My parents are classical musicians and always told this to me about going into the arts as a career. I even went briefly to film school, but backtracked because the career needed already-mature social skills to a level that I didn't develop for another 10 years. So I went STEMmish instead.

Now: I write because I can't not do it. I write to an audience of approximately zero readers, give or take fifty-ish a month. Even my Wordpress stats are way overstated as people probably just look at weird words and bounce -- I do long philosophical essays that very much depend on you having read my previous essays. I spend uncounted hours on it; I shirk from work and end up not looking for supplemental sources of income. Even with a baby, now that I barely have time to brush my teeth, whatever "me" time can be scraped is directed to my writing.

Sometimes I think I'm overtaken by delusions of grandeur, but surely I'd have been discouraged by now.

Link please - or email it to me, my email is in profile. If nothing else it will provide encouragement to another wanna write eventually person.

http://asemic-horizon.com

Thanks Much! Just read some of your comments on things today and it seems we have a little in common.

If the later essays don't stand on their own, have you considered bringing them together for a book-length project? Might be easier for the type of people who want to read it to find you.

There's no shame in having a hobby you enjoy.

Cynical take: it's in the interest of publishers (not the author of this post, but internet sites in general) to get as many people out there as possible as "writers", because that allows them to pay them $.02 to $.05 per word. Race to the bottom. Same thing happened to photography with the rise of the iPhone and cheap prosumer digital cameras. Nobody wants to pay photographers (or other visual artists), they just offer "exposure" or go on UnSplash and find a free image.

And one needs to decide what makes sense for them in terms of writing. For me personally, it's either doing something for free because I want to or I'm getting paid at least $1/word or so.

Optimistic Take: Crypto and NFT markets are opening the doors for photos, writing and creativity of all stripes to get valued far more than ever before.

https://twitter.com/mathewi/status/1379534990174777345 and see also https://finnoworld.com/debunking-nft-myths/

As far as I can tell NFT relies on social proofing in forums. I'd ask the rhetorical "how does that scale", but we all know the answer already. It doesn't. This will be ruined by spam in 5... 4...

Like anything in life it takes some time and disciplined practice to become good enough at something that you’re compelled to keep doing it. I don’t agree with you at all. People aren’t divided into “writers” and “non-writers”.

I agree motivation is a pretty bad way of getting anything done, true for life in general. The whole rocky montage thing grinds to a screeching halt the very moment the going gets tough, but I think you can manufacture inspiration to some degree.

I like writing but I don't write all the time, it's an on-again off-again thing. Like any creative output it requires inspiration. I need to summon the muses, as it were. I typically need diverse reading to get that need to express something in text. It doesn't have to be at all similar to what I'm writing, it just has to be good. Ovid's Metamorphoses has helped me blog posts about the philosophy of science.

For me isn't about getting some desired perception, its about having ideas that are bottled up in my head but struggling to find the focus to write them down and share them. I know I'm not alone in this.

That is true. However:

-- You can get your writing (or coding or film making) itch scratched in many ways. You may write fiction, or write long memos at work or write elaborate notes here on HN. What you aren't doing is deliberately writing the thing you want to work on or think about. It isn't directed.

-- Even if you do write a lot, you may (you almost certainly do) think your stuff (at least the first draft and perhaps the fifth) is not worth putting out there.

So there is still something to be said for encouraging and directing even natural writers.

Regarding the first point, when I deleted my Disqus account and swore off commenting on Reddit and forums, that energy and time went straight to the writing I actually wanted done. You're absolutely correct that some writers may write a lot, but it isn't directed to anything useful without some kind of routine. Definitely true in my experience at least.

When I lived in Los Angeles, the joke was if someone claimed to be a writer you'd respond, "Oh, you're unemployed then?"

I'd just like an agent. :(

> Many want to be seen as a writer, filmmaker or programmer or they want the rewards.

Some want to be. Some want to have been.

I think most writers enjoy writing more than sitting down to write. Having a routine certainly helped me finish my book. Does that make me a 'non-writer' because I wouldn't have exploded if I hadn't done that? It seems like an arbitrary distinction that feeds into the very image that you criticise people for wanting to have of themselves.

What made you think the article was about seeking an image? Was it the picture of the typewriter at the top of the page?

You also see writers who clearly want to direct films or make video games but stick to writing because you can write a novel without fundraising and organizing a team first.

Reminds me of what Charles Bukowski chose for his tombstone, “don’t try“.

clear writers are clear thinkers

In my personal experience, this is doubly true in work contexts, even for/especially for disciplines that don't typically involve writing.

My personal anecdata is that there is absolutely a correlation between how well a product manager or engineer writes and how well-thought-out their ideas are when you start to drill down into what they are saying or asking.

Incredible lack of editing in a post on writing.

Otherwise sound advice, but of course the old tenet still applies: learn all the rules, then discard them.

Indeed. Related, the TK section looks to be plagiarized from the writer that the author of this piece cites as inspiration. It's pretty weird.

Perhaps, but use of TK as a placeholder is fairly common. I've been using it for years, and I learned it from a jounalism handbook, IIRC.

It's quite embarassing when you forget to replace them before you publish though, so I have a section in my Markdown to docx/pdf/whatever Pandoc build scripts that errors if there are any remaining TKs.

> Perhaps, but use of TK as a placeholder is fairly common.

"But"?

“These teachings are like a tree trunk you hold onto in order to cross the river, and the discard”. Quoting from memory.

A newly available way of writing: speak out all your thoughts and transcribe the recording into text. The brain reaches for words in a totally different (and often more effortless) way when you are talking vs. when you are writing. Further, putting a music beat on and trying to keep up with your speech can give you a useful impetus to just get words out.

'I' is a story it tells to itself. Most do it quiet and unagitated for themself. And for the most part, they even do not know that they are talking themself into existence. Or writing, for that. Thankfully.

A lot should just shut up.

But then again, if all would do it, we would never hear the rare and beautiull ones. Stories and "I's", I mean.

In the article the author writes, "Write ten to fifteen sentences per outline heading to complete your paragraphs." Just prior to that he says, "Organize your outline with subdivisions, sections, and paragraphs".

What does he mean by 'heading', then? Are all the outline levels considered headings, or just the paragraph levels?

Nothing turns me off a piece about writing faster than a typo in the opening paragraph :/

"As a wise” man once said" ?

Indeed.

The quote mark?

Aye.

Reads like GPT-3.

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