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castis

> rage fest

Not hardly.

All of your 'wuts' are easily verifiable via a cursory search. There are ads for various MS services all over Windows.

https://www.howtogeek.com/269331/how-to-disable-all-of-windo...

https://www.ghacks.net/2017/03/08/windows-10-turn-off-ads-in...

The problem is that less tech savvy people wont know how to turn this off. They dont need to be advertised inside a product they _bought_. Should be opt-in, not out.

MS Teams installation:? Neither linux nor macos install Slack/Discord/etc for you out of the gate.

Telemetry:? Same as Ads; should be opt-in, not out.

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Yeah, I was really confused by this, since I very clearly recall seeing ads on fresh Windows computers, along with guides etc on how to disable them.

I know back when I used Windows I had an entire routine to disable all the annoying stuff, so I suspect they disabled all the annoying stuff and totally forgot.

I really don't get the need to "defend" Windows, however. It's an OS being sold by a large, for-profit company, that has pros and cons like any other OS. No need to fight MS's fights for them... and given it's 75% desktop marketshare (and like ~95% for gaming), I think they are doing pretty dang well by themselves.

This topic is about Windows 11...

If you buy a signature windows 11 device (surface) - you get all the Microsoft ecosystem because that's probably why/what you're buying into...

but it certainly isn't full of ads and my "wuts" are there because i'm calling out the bs :)

> MS Teams installation:? Neither linux nor macos install Slack/Discord/etc for you out of the gate.

In all fairness, iMessage probably counts. Not that I consider "but Apple also does bad things!" to be a defense.

For Linux, many GNOME-based distros shipped with Pidgin (an open source communication program) well-integrated with the desktop environment, really early on compared to other OS's. I'm hesitant to say "Linux did it first", but it was definitely an early adopter.

That said, it's hard to compare the two given Pidgin is a general purpose communication tool without vendor lock-in (e.g. it's also an IRC client, has peer-to-peer mode, etc), and most Linux installers let you opt-out of these sorts of bundled software.

I think the real issue is some might find MS Teams to be obnoxious software (I suppose, I barely have used it)

> Telemetry:? Same as Ads; should be opt-in, not out.

To be fair, if you asked people if they wanted garbage they probably wouldn't say yes. You only get these acceptance of these sorts of impositions when there is no other alternative (or people aren't aware there even is an alternative).

Thats not fairness, thats a known dark pattern being pushed on people.

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