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Comment by Waterluvian | Hacker News Reader

I've been away from MacOS for about 10 years. Big Sur now. Kinda hate it. I keep accidentally invoking extra layers of UI everywhere. That's fine I guess.

But what I ran into that I LOVE is making EVERY app full-screen, pretending there is no desktop or window management, and just swiping right/left among them.

I wish there was a way to smooth out the UX so that this feels first-class and I stop accidentally breaking this illusion at times.

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Honestly sounds like you might want an iPad.

I recently got one to use as a secondary display just for Slack /Discord/etc, but after connecting a trackpad & keyboard I totally fell in love. It's a very simplistic environment, but it's actually quite nice as an alternative to the full-blown macOS.

Hmm. Not a crazy idea. simplification is appealing to me. But I’m guessing it’s still not really a computer? Can I get iterm2 with bash and vscode and rust?

> Can I get iterm2 with bash and vscode and rust?

Not really. The best dev experience I have with the iPad is using Blink to mosh into (the mobility mosh offers over SSH is key for me) a server, which lets me run whatever I want on it. But if you're developing GUI applications, it's not really that great.

You can use something like Working Copy for git and Textastic for editing programs on the iPad, but it's not really a proper IDE (even a light IDE) just a syntax aware editor. If I'm not using emacs on the server, I use those for my code editing purposes.

Have you found a consistent way to get color schemes working for vim/tmux when running over mosh?

Haven’t tried mosh in a while but this was my biggest gripe, over what is otherwise an amazing mobile experience.

You can run VS Code in the browser: https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2021/10/20/vscode-dev

One of their listed use-cases is exactly this:

> Develop on your iPad. You can upload/download files (and even store them in the cloud using the Files app), as well as open repositories remotely with the built-in GitHub Repositories extension.

> For example, the terminal and debugger are not available, which makes sense since you can't compile, run, and debug a Rust or Go application within the browser sandbox

Direct quote

Ugh, that's pretty limiting. I wasn't aware of that.

Perhaps one of the self-hosted VS Code solutions out there would work?

People say this, and then when you say “sure but one of my full screen apps is VS Code and another one is the Terminal, how do I get that on an iPad?” they go “Honestly sounds like you might want a Mac.”

There is now a web version of vscode and you can ssh into your environment.

I really hate how Apple shaped a whole new ecosystem that made it specially hard to run open source and unixy stuff.

It feels like the Disney moment where a company thriving from an abundant shared resource turns around to poison the well to keep their lead.

I love my iPad but really wish that’s not the future waiting for us.

Vs code with terminal in codespaces via a browser is most impressive.

I still prefer local, but I was blown awat

You can also connect iPad to your Mac as a second display, and put terminal there :)

You can get some stuff running on an iPad using iSH [0], but compatibility is iffy and performance even moreso. At one point, I tried bringing a RPi4 along with me to act as a mobile dev server (it'd serve an instance of VSCode over ethernet via a USB-C/ethernet adapter on the iPad, and the iPad would share its Wifi connection to the RPi), but it was clunky to bring two devices with me. Nowadays, I use Blink Shell [1] as a mosh terminal to a remote dev server.

[0]: https://ish.app [1]: https://blink.sh

Honestly sounds like you might want a tiling window manager

Most of the time a workspace only has a single app in it and when I want a terminal side-by-side it's just one button press away.

I think window management in Mac leaves much to be desired (hot key and snapping floating windows). But associate fullscreeen window/split with a new workspace is actually one thing it does right. I installed an addon on Gnome just to emulate that.

Split is kind of useless with an ultrawide monitor though, I wish it was 3 columns

In all seriousness, there is an app for macOS window management. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bettersnaptool/id417375580?mt=...

One free option for Mac: https://rectangleapp.com/

I use it, not the point though, should be built-in.

I don't think expecting Apple to implement every single pet feature of every single power user is something that is reasonable.

But they can support like two features for every single power user: hotkeys for managing windows and snapping to windows when you push it against the border.

but...why? just install Rectangle and forget about it why does it matter so much if it's "built-in" or not..? It's like complaining that Apple doesn't make Alfred built in because you don't like Spotlight.

Aranging windows is not a "power user feature". It's a basic thing that all other desktop OSes have. If you think hotkeys are "power user" things then replace them with gestures. Mac has none.

They actually do have windows splits, it's just unfortunate that they force a workspace onto them.

If anything workspace is a power user feature. Many including myself rarely use it. I could not if I wanted to because it looks so stupid on an ultrawide monitor.

To me the fact that 2 basic things: window snap and window switch hot keys (dont tell me you can switch apps, then swicth windows, it's retarded), don't exist, and I need at least 2 other apps to make my computer bearable, is ridiculous.

It's luckly that the apps happen to be free no thanks to Apple.

What app do you use to get a normal alt+tab on mac?

It's literally called AltTab

Thanks!

I'm using Hammerspoon to implement manual tiling and pretend to have old Spaces (spaces arranged in a grid with instant transitions), but it's not my favorite thing ever.

You’re mad that Apple didn’t design their operating system around your personal preferences. Personally, I’m accustomed to the way the Apple does things and personally feel the Windows way of doing do things very annoying to use (I end up needing to use Windows a few times per week). So I guess we cancel each other out :) Linux desktops have every feature under the sun but they have so many other problems I find them utterly unusable. That is why I use Mac, perhaps you would be better suited with a different platform if it annoys you so much. Sounds like you just prefer the Windows workflow ergonomic to me.

Also, FYI, you can split left and right on mac by hovering over full-screen button while holding the option key: https://imgur.com/a/VNSQR8l

It's not a hotkey, but it gets the job done.

No that's not the case, linux and windows both seem to have the basic set of features right.

I think each OS has the part they do right. Windows has the taskbar, Linux has the customization, Mac has spotlight and full screen spaces.

Many of us are forced to use a Mac at work btw.

Ooh I am liking some of the things this has over ShiftIt. Discover a new one of these window managers every few months.

Forewarning that there are loads of apps that the hotkeys just don’t work on. FaceTime, Steam, etc. I’m not sure why, generally the issues get closed with, “this is limitation of macOS,” but Spectacle didn’t have the same issues

Ooh! Now all I need is a replacement for Better Touch Tool.* Anyone know of anything?

* which I use almost exclusively as open/close new tabs in Safari and Finder with the top right and left corners of the trackpad respectively; plus three-finger-swipe left/right gestures to move between tabs

Install ShiftIt - customisable shortcut keys for almost all window layout options.

What Gnome extension was that? Sounds interesting, so I'd like to give it a try.

https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/3675/maximize-to-next...

Thanks!

If you're looking for a good OSX window manager, Yabai [1] is excellent. If you're willing and allowed too you can get greater control by disabling SIP. However even with system integrity enabled (which bars access to certain WindowServer APIs - space control, removing shadows, multi-monitor integrations) Yabai functions great.

It uses a messaging passing API to interface with a local service, so it's completely programmable and can be integrated with something like skhd [2]

1: https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai

2: https://github.com/koekeishiya/skhd

My skhdrc setup: https://pastebin.com/5GT8yiGK

Amethyst is another option, but doesn't require disabling SIP: https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst. Does require accessibility permissions though.

> binary space partitioning

instant put off

seriously why is this a thing? Who looks at their messy desktop and think to themselves: "man it would be nice to have all of this organized... with binary partitioning algorithm"?

I tried amethyst as well as i3 on linux, gave up on tilling. I prefer to do it myself according to the need at the time. Just need hot keys.

Look into Rectangle if you just want the snapping resize ability or BetterSnapTool as a more advanced utility. In BetterSnapTool you can define custom snap areas and associate just specific apps with them, specifying window sizes and positioning per snap area. I’ve tried binary tilers and it only really works on text heavy workloads for me.

hey forgot to say thanks for the recommendation and I'm giving yabai another try. I think just ignore the binary stuff it's pretty neat and mouse-friendly. One downside is there is no indicator on menubar.

Your config is a great starting point

>I wish there was a way to smooth out the UX so that this feels first-class and I stop accidentally breaking this illusion at times.

This is probably not what you meant by "smooth out the UX", but I like to enable "reduce motion" under System Preferences -> Accessibility -> Display. It means when you move between apps, the sideways pan is replaced by a fade, which is nice if you do this a lot.

I have been using Macs daily for a decade. Big Sur is a big reversion in usability. Easily the worst MacOS update I can recall. The UI is a lot clunkier and slower and just harder to make sense of. They will throw it all out in 2-4 years and start over, that's about how long the UI stays stable.

I think the obsession with making everything white, with no clear distinction between window contents and window chrome makes it quite confusing. I'm hoping they revert this. Not everything has to be flat.

Yeah, modern UX designers need to come down out of the clouds and pay attention to how people actually do work. It isn't just Apple either. Mozilla is doing the same thing with Firefox. The entire industry seems to have their heads screwed on backwards. Second to HR they are the people I trust the least.

I can recall either maverick or yosemite (the ones after 10.7) but yeah, recently I had a chance to “use” big sur and it deserves that name.

Funny, I hate that aspect

Behold why UIs get super bloated over time. Users can want entirely different things. =)

Same. I never use spaces or apps in fullscreen (except when watching videos).

I find it way easier to do CMD + TAB to switch between apps, than having to switch between spaces until I get to where I want to be.

I use full screen when I am working just in the MacBook and no other screens attached. It’s simpler to swipe between desktops. It’s annoying when I use my external monitors.

cmd+tab does search across spaces though, doesn't it?

Multiple desktops/spaces, with my mainstay apps each assigned to one desktop, fullscreened with BetterSnapTool, and helper apps like notes, terminal, calendar & mail assigned to all desktops then just swap between apps/spaces either by pressing the dock icon, by four-finger swipe (very quick if switching between adjacent spaces), or four-finger swipe up to open app expose and switch between apps or spaces. I love this setup, and whenever I'm forced to use Windows, I'm incredibly frustrated by its comparably terrible window & desktop management

For me, it depends whether I’m using a laptop or proper size monitor.

I've always enjoyed the spaces feature. Tried to get into it as my main way of interacting with apps, but it never fully stuck. That might be because I'm often using preview windows and everything is chaos.

I’ll open a second desktop if I need to look up something in a new browser window, but have work open and windows arranged a certain way.

I never used it until I started working at a job where I find myself juggling multiple tickets at once on the regular. Now I make a Space for each ticket (browser window with the ticket and branch open, editor opened to the project directory, etc), and when I context-switch my computer context-switches with me. It's been great

iPadOS 15 handles full screen apps so much better than macOS. I hope Apple eventually ports the iPads full screen multitasking model to the Mac (while also keeping regular windowed multitasking, of course)

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